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Re: [lojban] Higher-precedence Grouping with {bo} Is Impossible for TAG Sentence Connectives



On Tue, May 14, 2013 at 10:21 AM, Jacob Errington <nictytan@gmail.com> wrote:
On 12 May 2013 12:56, Bob LeChevalier, President and Founder - LLG <lojbab@lojban.org> wrote:
More broadly, really complex constructs are more easily expressed using gi'ebo/gi'eke for right and left grouping in afterthought, and ga/gi for forethought.  Since these constructs connect multiple "bridi-tails" (selbri plus trailing sumti) within one .i sentence, for maximal flexibility, you have to but all the sumti including x1 after the selbri.  These are also described in that same chapter of CLL.

Furthermore, which I didn't realize earlier, the gi'eke construct is in my opinion unintuitive because it breaks the ordinary rules of ke..ke'e brackets:

{.i broda gi'eke brode ke'e brode gi'e brodu} doesn't parse, even though {ke brode ke'e brode} does outside of a gihek. This makes it impossible to achieve in a gihek the tanru parse {(broda brode) (brodi (brodo brodu))} which would be done with a combination of ke..ke'e and bo as such: {.i ke broda brode ke'e bo brodo bo brodu}

My suggestion would be to remoke gi'eke brackets altogether because they cause unexpected behaviour and limit the possibilities of our speech more than anything. They also have presumably little to no usage.
.i mi'e la tsani mu'o
 
{bo} is hackish, but its meaning is at least determined by the grammar. Grammatically the worst thing about it is failure to elide certain terminators. For example, if {I TAG BO} were instead {I TAG BOhOI} or something, {.i fi'o broda fe'u bo} could be {.i fi'o broda bo'oi} with the {fe'u} elided. This isn't that bad, however, all things said; I wouldn't say it's worth having its own cmavo. Incidentally, why is it that the PEG can't make {.i fi'o broda bo mi brode} parse correctly, whereas it can fix things like JOI connecting LE-sumti without {ku}?

Evidently {ke} is actually even worse, since you can't coerce {GIhA KE SELBRI} to not make a gihe-kek. Why were these designed to be so awkwardly general purpose?

mi'e la latro'a mu'o


On Tue, May 14, 2013 at 10:21 AM, Jacob Errington <nictytan@gmail.com> wrote:
On 12 May 2013 12:56, Bob LeChevalier, President and Founder - LLG <lojbab@lojban.org> wrote:
More broadly, really complex constructs are more easily expressed using gi'ebo/gi'eke for right and left grouping in afterthought, and ga/gi for forethought.  Since these constructs connect multiple "bridi-tails" (selbri plus trailing sumti) within one .i sentence, for maximal flexibility, you have to but all the sumti including x1 after the selbri.  These are also described in that same chapter of CLL.

Furthermore, which I didn't realize earlier, the gi'eke construct is in my opinion unintuitive because it breaks the ordinary rules of ke..ke'e brackets:

{.i broda gi'eke brode ke'e brode gi'e brodu} doesn't parse, even though {ke brode ke'e brode} does outside of a gihek. This makes it impossible to achieve in a gihek the tanru parse {(broda brode) (brodi (brodo brodu))} which would be done with a combination of ke..ke'e and bo as such: {.i ke broda brode ke'e bo brodo bo brodu}

My suggestion would be to remoke gi'eke brackets altogether because they cause unexpected behaviour and limit the possibilities of our speech more than anything. They also have presumably little to no usage.

.i mi'e la tsani mu'o
 


lojbab
--
Bob LeChevalier    lojbab@lojban.org    www.lojban.org
President and Founder, The Logical Language Group, Inc.


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