On Fri, Oct 18, 2013 at 9:34 PM, Pierre Abbat <ph...@bezitopo.org> wrote:
On Friday, October 18, 2013 07:57:37 Lormoral King wrote:I think "leka ri bilma kei" means "that his *den* was sick", but I'm not sure.
> Hello, it's me again.
>
> After having gone through the CLL (skipping some difficult parts), I
> decided to translate a short story to practice my new knowledge. It's a
> fable called The Sick Lion. Please let me know how well I did.
>
> le bilma cinfo
>
> i pa cinfo noi ke'a mutce tolcitno seri'a lenu le cinfo na kakne lenu bapli
> cpacu loi cidja cu jdice lenu tcica cpacu i ra xrukla le ri zdani gi'e
> vreta gi'e jifkritrazu'e leka ri bilma kei gi'e gasnu lenu leka ri bilma cu
Does "ri" refer to the last sumti completed or to the last started sumti that
is complete?
I would interpret the antecendent of that ri as the last ri (which in turn has "ra" as its precedent, which is presumably le cinfo from context, but "lo go'i" might have been a better choice). In general, I count backwards to the beginning of completed sumti, so the "ri" comes before the "le" going leftwards. Remember that pro-sumti in general (Gosh, how I hate that term. Can't we use a more lojbanic term like basysu'i or ka'irsu'i? "prosumti" sounds like someone who is anti-arguments of bridi) do not "count" for ri,ra,ru, except the ri,ra,ru and ti,ta,tu series. Still, they are usually not worth the imprecision/confusion to use them in large doses.
However, for the majority of lojbanists who claim that a "ka" construct must leave open the slot that the ce'u would go in (or have the ce'u explicit), then that "ri" shouldn't be there at all (it would imply "ka ri bilma ce'u", "...pretended to be that he was sick with him-symptoms...", whatever the heck that might mean. (I'm not in that majority, so it's fine by me ;-)
> gubni se djuno i lei danlu cusku leka kecti ije ro le go'i cu nonkansa.i lei danli cu cusku .i na ka'e cusku lo ka co'e .i ka'e cusku lo sedu'u co'e
Yes. It appears you wish to say that they expressed their pity. So you can either use "lo sedu'u kecti" (they said that they were sorry), or simply "lei danlu cu kecti". In fact, you can even say (a little trickier, but probably the closest to your intent) "le'i danlu se cu'u kecti" (the animal expressed (something,) feeling pity)
> klama le zdani be le cinfo be'o noi le cinfo cu vlile citka le danlu i ba
> lenu so'i lei danlu pu simsa canci le lorxu cu sanli co bartu le kevna gi'e
> retsku lejei le cinfo cu kanro kei le cinfoYou missed the "[kei] ku" after the "canci". What you currently have is "after the event of many of the animals had similarly vanished from the fox, there was standing outside of...." Also, you can't ask a truth value. You could ask ABOUT a truth value. The way this is most commonly expressed in lojban is "le lorxu cu... retsku(/reisku (the canonical form)) lo se du'u xu kau le cinfo cu kanro" (the fox asked if the lion was healthy)
> i le cinfo cu spuda lu mi no'e
> kanro i ku'i ki'u ma do sanli co bartu le kevna i e'ocai ko nerkla le kevna
> tezu'e lenu tavla mi li'u i le lorxu cu cusku lu na go'i ki'e i mi cfaga'e
> ledu'u so'i jamfu prina cu nerkla ledo kevna i ku'i mi na viska le sinxa be
> ledu'u xrukla li'uI'd suggest that "nu" is probably more appropriate than "du'u" for both cfaga'e2 and sinxa2. But it is an arguable point.>Looks pretty good and much better than some stuff I've seen from rank
> i prije fa le se kajde be le xlali be le drata
beginners. If you just drop the other cu in there, it parses(nice pun, Pierre, but which "cu" are you referring to?). I'd say "lo"
several times you said "le", but which article to use is partly a matter of
Sprachgefühl.
PierreI agree with Pierre that this an excellent first attempt, and his note the choices of the lo vs. le.
Another stylistic note I would say is that while the period(full stop) before "i" isn't mandated, most lojbanists leave that particular one in, as it sets apart the sentences visually in a more noticeable way, breaking apart the monolithic text.