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Re: [lojban] Officialness, spin-off projects, dialects, communication with the outside world

la .iesk. cu cusku di'e

The MediaWiki ('LMW') at lojban.org seems to imply that what I thought
is 'official Lojban' is outdated, and to promote a slightly different
language under the provisional name of La Bangu:
– http://mw.lojban.org/index.php/Obsolete:_joiku (note the 'obsolete')
– http://mw.lojban.org/index.php/Stub:_La_Bangu
– http://mw.lojban.org/index.php/Stub:_Is_Lojban_an_auxlang ('Lojban had
6 words for "and" […]' … it does still, doesn’t it?)

So, just to get a clear picture:

What is the language promoted by the LLG ('official Lojban')?


Do you really want to get into this discussion? It's all politics.


I *think* it is
http://www.lojban.org/publications/reference_grammar/chapter21.html, and
the rest of CLL, superseded only by confirmed errata, and Xorlo. So, eg,
{lo broda ku joi lo brode} needs the {ku}, and {mi .e do broda} is not
equivalent to *{mi je do broda}.
Yes, let's say that's official. So what? That's not very informative, if people have the freedom (and use it) to speak however they want. Needing a {ku} is just annoying, why hang on to it? This is a rhetorical question. 


What is the MediaWiki about?
Not sure. I think it started out as a way to get a more user-friendly wiki that doesn't have such cluttered pages as the old tiki. Something that a beginner could read and not get confused.
Now there are lots of unofficial projects on it, but that's the natural result of the conservative "leadership". The user base is going to do what they think is right, and they will make the changes no matter what.
The only difference is whether or not the changes occur through an "official" procedure, say, through discussions + final voting, and whether or not they will be documented properly. There is demand for change, but the conservative party blocks any ambitions. Nothing must change! 


I *thought* it was just a supposedly user-friendlier copy and
continuation of the TikiWiki. So, while (as a wiki) chaotic, still (as a
part of lojban.org) about (the agreed-upon, ie 'official' version of)
Lojban.
Right, except there is no agreed-upon official version (assuming you don't only talk about grammar, but also semantics, which in my opinion cannot be ignored, but some think Lojban equals Lojban's grammar). 


(By the way, I do find the MediaWiki easier to use [well, I try
to ignore some of the scarier add-ons recently installed], and I am
thankful to Gleki for putting so much work into it.)


I would like to second this. gleki has been doing a lot.


If, however, the MediaWiki is about a different (version of the)
language, then we should perhaps put a big sign somewhere explaining
that what follows, however more brilliant than 'official Lojban' it may
be, is not the same thing as the language promoted on the rest of
lojban.org.
lojban.org's tiki as a whole has never presented a uniform, consistent, single Lojban. There is so much variance among the different tiki pages. There is at least a slight chance that the new wiki will be more uniform, even if what it presents does not match the CLL. Then again, show me two Lojbanists who speak the same language. 

mu'o mi'e la selpa'i


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