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Re: [lojban] [oz] {ny poi cy ke'a falcru}






On Fri, Feb 7, 2014 at 10:32 PM, Felipe Gonçalves Assis <felipeg.assis@gmail.com> wrote:
On 7 February 2014 22:40, Jorge Llambías <jjllambias@gmail.com> wrote:


That's how "poi" works with quantifiers after all. "ci ko'a poi broda" quantifies over the referents of ko'a restricted to those that satisfy broda. 


I know about the rule for quantifiers, but it still can be seen as the relative clause adding a statement about the bound variable. It doesn't change the fact that removing the relative clause preserves the truth of a sentence. The parse doesn't help here, by the way.

(ko'a is not a bound variable though)

Removing the relative clause does, in general, change the truth of the sentence. Consider for example "ro ko'a poi broda cu brode" vs "ro ko'a brode", or "no ko'a poi broda cu brode" vs "no ko'a brode". 
 

Consider other examples:
(1) {ti poi toldi}: At least in the way my mind works, when I point at something, I point at a specific thing; I just need to give a clue to the listener about what I am exactly pointing at. It is not like I am pointing at a bunch of things and selecting a butterfly out of them.

(2) {ma'a po'u lo pilno be me'o denpa bu girzu}: When I use a personal pronoun, I have a clear conscience about who I am talking about. Again, I just have to give a clue to the se cusku because the pronoun is too general. 

 Then I think "ti noi toldi", "ma'a no'u ..." would make more sense. "poi" is there to restrict the referents of "ti"/"ma'a", not to just comment on them. 

(3) {ra poi danlu}: An alternative to {lo bi'u nai mlatu}.

I think that should be "noi". Using "poi" to restrict from different possible antecedents of "ra" seems like a metalinguistic deviation from ordinary "poi". 

And, finally, if we want to talk about part of the referent, there is always {lo me ko'a}.

I'd rather say "some of the referents" than "part of the referent", which could be confused with "lo pagbu be ko'a".

mu'o mi'e xorxes

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