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Re: [lojban] Mathy person interested in concept, unsure where to begin.



Well, given that formula there isn't a lot to do but maybe team 1 coming up with 'da ge broda gi nai brode' or 'da na ku ge ganai broda gi brode'


On Wednesday, September 24, 2014 3:20 PM, Jorge Llambías <jjllambias@gmail.com> wrote:



On Wed, Sep 24, 2014 at 5:07 PM, 'John E. Clifford' via lojban <lojban@googlegroups.com> wrote:
We are at a bit of cross purposes here.  Team 1 is using the full potential of a modern theoretical grammar, one that would derive every sentence of a language from some formula, not just sentences of some set trivially matching the structure of the logic.  For most languages and, indeed, for most sentences in those languages, several non-equivalent formulae may give rise to the same sentence (most languages are syntactically ambiguous).  Lojban is planned to avoid this: a given sentence can come from only one formula (up to equivalence - speaking of which, of course, equivalent sentences in Lojban derive from the same formula or equivalent ones). This means that every logically significant feature of the formula must be represented somehow in the sentence and. If that representation is shortcut somehow, that shortcut must be marked to allow a unique reconstruction.  The logic > Lojban process and the Lojban > logic are of course distinct but presumably developed together very closely, as is the surface grammar available for ordinary use (PEG at present). So the tests proposed are not trivial.

Perhaps a concrete example might help. By "formula" I mean something from FOPL like "Ex: P(x) & ~ Q(x)"

Team 1 receives the formula and puts it into (horribly clumsy but faithful and unambiguous) Lojban thus:  
"su'o da zo'u ge broda fa da gi na ku zo'u brode fa da". 

Team 2 gets the Lojban and reconstructs unambiguously the original formula: "Ex: P(x) & ~ Q(x)"

The two teams must of course have a dictionary that says that "P" is "broda" and "Q" is "brode", and it could happen that Team 2 comes up with non-essential differences in the formula, such as: "Ey: P(y) & ~ Q(y)".

Any FOPL formula that team 1 receives can be subjected to this automatic process. You obviously have something different in mind, but I can't work out what it is..

mu'o mi'e xorxes

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