On Wed, Oct 15, 2014 at 12:35 PM, <sunrise2000@comcast.net> wrote:coi rodo
I'm looking for an (intelligible) explanation of the "tosmabru test"
that's part of the "lujvo-making alogrithm" in section 11 of chapter 4
of the CLL (the chapter on morphology). The problem I'm having is that
the explanation of the tosmabru test on p. 71 can only be understood by
someone who already understands the test. (...which kind of defeats the
point of reading and writing about it, doesn't it?) In particular:I answer your questions, but then I will give you a different procedure to test for tosmabru that I find easier to follow.1. In the pattern "CVC...CVC + X", is the "..." intended to represent
a sequence only of CVC rafsi?Yes.2. What does "something which has caused a 'y'-hyphen to be installed
between the previous CVC and itself by one of the above rules"
mean? Is that just a complicated way of saying that the final
consonant of the final CVC and initial consonant of X formed an
impermissible consonant pair? Does reference to "the above rules"
include rule 5, the tosmabru test itself?No, it refers to the rules up to 4. Tosmabru failure will only require you to insert a single y-hyphen, which we haven't inserted at this point yet.3. When "no further hyphens are needed", to what level of recursion
does that refer?This test is not recursive. (5b) says that if at least one of the CC pairs up to the first y-hyphen (or up to the end of the word if there are no y-hyphens) is not a permissible initial, then the test is over and the lujvo passes the test (it's not a tosmabru fail).4. When installing a y-hyphen at "the first such joint", is the first
joint counted from the left, or from the right?First from the left.5. I presume, if the tosmabru test doesn't apply, that the lujvo
"passes" the test (because it's the last step in the lujvo-making
algorithm), but the description doesn't explicitly state this.Yes.Basically, the description in the CLL can only be understood if you
already understand the test, or can re-invent it yourself. Could
somebody please point me to a clear explanation of this "tosmabru test"?Here's another version of the test:A lujvo with CVC- as it's initial rafsi (CVC-X) is a candidate for tosmabru failure. If C-X is a valid lujvo, where C is the final C of CVC-, then you need to insert a y-hyphen: CVCyX, otherwise you don't.Unlike the CLL test, this version of the test requires you to be capable of identifying whether a certain form (C-X) is a lujvo or not, but you have to be able to do this to parse lojban anyway, so that shouldn't be an impediment.mu'o mi'e xorxes--
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