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Re: [lojban] Re: Question about Lojbanized Name in Unix/Linux


On Thu, Jan 1, 2015 at 11:31 AM, Michael Turniansky <mturniansky@gmail.com> wrote:
On Sun, 21 Sep 2014, Jorge Llambías wrote:
They are not different words in Lojban, just (very slightly) different
permitted pronunciations of the same word. Even the stress in cmevla
doesn't change the word, so "aleksándr" and "aléksandr" and "áleksandr" are
all valid pronounciations of the same word. Stress is only important in
brivla.

   Just a side note that not everyone agrees with Jorge's last assertion (e.g. me).  I've never seen that said officially anywhere, and have argued against that point in, for example, this thread: https://www.mail-archive.com/lojban-beginners%40lojban.org/msg04820.html

  Perhaps the next iteration of the CLL will be explicit on this point

CLL https://lojban.github.io/cll/3/9/ says:
<<
 Primary stress is required on the penultimate syllable of Lojban content words (called “brivla”). Lojbanized names may be stressed on any syllable, but if a syllable other than the penultimate is stressed, the syllable (or at least its vowel) must be capitalized in writing. Lojban structural words (called “cmavo”) may be stressed on any syllable or none at all. However, primary stress may not be used in a syllable just preceding a brivla, unless a pause divides them; otherwise, the two words may run together.
>>

So both cmevla and cmavo may be stressed on any syllable according to CLL. This is not absolutely explicit that changing the stress does not change the word into a different word, but it's hard to argue that the same rule that applies to cmavo does not apply to cmevla when they are described with the same words in the same paragraph.

In a different section https://lojban.github.io/cll/3/4/ , CLL says:

<<The syllabic consonants of Lojban, [l̩], [m̩], [n̩], and [r̩], are variants of the non-syllabic [l], [m], [n], and [r] respectively. They normally have only a limited distribution, appearing in Lojban names and borrowings, although in principle any “l”, “m”, “n”, or “r” may be pronounced syllabically. If a syllabic consonant appears next to a “l”, “m”, “n”, or “r” that is not syllabic, it may not be clear which is which:
4.1)   brlgan.
       [br̩l gan]
       or [brl̩ gan]
is a hypothetical Lojbanized name with more than one valid pronunciation; however it is pronounced, it remains the same word.
>>

So the idea of names with more than one valid pronunciation remaining the same word is also there.

mu'o mi'e xorxes

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