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Re: [lojban] {te fanza}?
On 06/02/2015 03:09 PM, la sel wrote:
"This also constitutes a good use case for {jai}: .i lo sance cu jai
fanza mi". Thanks for the reminder that x1 should be an abstraction.
Question: the definitions of fanza that I've seen call for an event in
x1. Does that allow for property abstractions? I think I'm
comfortable with the notion that a property can annoy, even if an
event is required to "experience" most/all properties.
The idea of using a property here is that behind the scenes, the selbri
constructs the relevant event and can make a claim as to whether or not
that event occurs. Look at {kakne}, for instance. It makes no sense to
say something like {.i mi kakne lo nu do citka lo plise}, so we can
conclude that kakne2 must involve kakne1, and decide that kakne2 must be
a property abstraction. For example, {.i mi kakne lo nu ce'u limna} "I
can swim". Behind the scenes, {kakne} constructs an event by applying
the property to the x1, filling in {ce'u} with {mi}, produces {lo nu mi
limna}, and claims that this event is possible. In particular, it makes
the claim {.i lo nu mi limna cu cumki} and perhaps adds some connotation
of agency/volition. (It turns out that you can think of a lot of
words/phrases in lojban as formalizations of applying connotation to
otherwise "plain" words/phrases.)
In the specific case of {fanza}, the predicate is stating that the x2
having the x1 (as a property) is what is annoying to the x2.
As for what types of sumti that definitions call for, the type
recommendations in the definitions are just that: recommendations. When
it became understood that thinking of places as properties was a
worthwhile way to express connections between places (e.g. how kakne2
requires kakne1), many places for which the dictionary recommends
event-abstractions began to be filled with property-abstractions in
certain texts or channels (e.g. IRC).
.i mi'e la tsani mu'o
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