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Re: [lojban] xoi and new soi as bridi relative clause





2015-07-23 0:51 GMT+00:00 Jorge Llambías <jjllambias@gmail.com>:
>
>
> On Wed, Jul 22, 2015 at 8:28 PM, guskant <gusni.kantu@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>> non-restrictive relative clause is not related to the problem.
>
>
> They have the same grammar as restrictive clauses, so if you disallow the
> prenex for one you disallow it for the other as well, unless you separate
> their grammars.
>  

I agree.

>>
>> How do we transform {poi}s with {zo'u} in prenex into prenex normal form? 
>> ro da 
>> poi su'o de 
>> poi su'o di poi rirni ke'a zo'u di cliva ke'a 
>> zi'e poi ro daxire poi ctuca ke'a zo'u da .onai de tavla ke'a daxire
>> zo'u de .a di xendo ke'a 
>> zo'u ko'a poi su'o daxici zo'u daxici tavla de ke'a cu penmi di 
>
>
> Not sure what that is supposed to mean, it's very confusing. The same
> variable names are being used inside and outside the scope of their binders,
> which means they have to be bound with new implicit "su'o". Also, is "su'o
> di poi rirni ke'a" really meant to mean just "su'o se rirni", for example?
> Embedded relative clauses can get confusing very fast, so it's not a good
> idea to use "ke'a" when you could use "da", "de", "di". "ke'a" will always
> correspond to the tightest "poi".
>
> Could you make a simpler example where your problem shows up, preferrably
> with the fewest possible variables?
>
> mu'o mi'e xorxes
>

ex.1)
ro da 
poi su'o de 
poi ro di zo'u di broda de da
zo'u de brode da di 
zo'u da brodi de di

Do we have a rule to unify {zo'u}s nested in {poi}? Maybe the preceding ones are outer, but I have never seen the rule written.

ex.2)
ro da 
poi su'o de zo'u de broda da
zi'e poi ro di zo'u di brode da
zo'u da brodi de di

Do we have a rule to unify {zo'u}s in {poi} connected with {zi'e}? Maybe we can define the preceding ones are outer. If so, ex.2 seems apparently the same with

ex.2-1)
ro da 
poi ro di zo'u di brode da
zi'e poi su'o de zo'u de broda da
zo'u da brodi de di

but actually they will have different meaning.

ex.3)
su'o de zo'u ko'a poi ro da zo'u da broda ke'a cu brode de

When {zo'u} in {poi} is covered with a constant {ko'a}, is it considered outer than {su'o de} or inner?


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