Re: [lojban] Re: [Llg-members] A story of "Search %s" string in Vivaldi browser

2015-12-20 11:24 GMT+03:00 guskant <gusni...@gmail.com>:

2015-12-20 7:09 GMT+00:00 Gleki Arxokuna <gleki.is...@gmail.com>:
>
>
> 2015-12-18 14:37 GMT+03:00 Ilmen <ilmen....@gmail.com>:
>>
>>
>> On 18/12/2015 09:23, Gleki Arxokuna wrote:
>>>
>>> When I was translating Vivaldi browser interface to Lojban I aimed at the
>>> full translation of 100% of strings, which ended in Lojban being added to
>>> Vivaldi beta version while Esperanto and Ido got removed due to incomplete
>>> translations.
>>>
>>> However, I faced one string that I couldn't unambiguously translate. The
>>> string is
>>> "Search" and the browser uses that to form a placeholder in the browser
>>> search inputbox to form "Search Google", "Search Bing" and similar.
>>>
>>> And what I found is that Lojban presents no solutions.
>>> 1. I used {sisku sepi'o la'oi} => {sisku sepi'o la'oi Google}. The
>>> experimental cmavo {la'oi} quotes one word that must not contain spaces of
>>> pauses inside. Hence, its immediate drawback. Users can add a search engine
>>> leading to {sisku sepi'o la'oi Lojban MediaWiki} where "MediaWiki" hangs in
>>> space.
>>> 2. Neither {la'o zoi.XXX.zoi} method is fine. A search engine named
>>> ".zoi" leads to {la'o zoi..zoi.zoi} quoting an empty string and the last
>>> ".zoi" hangs in space. The browser is not able to change "zoi" separators on
>>> the fly.
>>> 3. However, the solution in English is unambiguous. It's a user interface
>>> widget, kinda {lu ... li'u} quoted text.
>>>
>>> widget (inputbox) boundaries are analogous to this {lu ... li'u}.
>>>
>>> This text can't refer to anything outside it, it's a thing in itself but
>>> this thing can be parsed and used by external mechanisms.
>>>
>>> "Search Lojban MediaWiki" means that after "Search " we have an arbitrary
>>> plain text in an unknown language until End Of Feed is reached.
>>>
>>> I imagine Lojban community could extend {la} to be able to catch
>>> non-Lojban text until the end of file/feed is reached.
>>>
>>> But in the current conditions I see it as a drawback of the language.
>>>
>>
>> Maybe this should be discussed on the BPFK mailing list rather than here.
>
>
> Missed that sentence.
> Yes and no.
>
> Technically Lojban has a solution (la'o zoi ... zoi with changing delimiters
> when needed).
> But then comes a part not dependent on the language.
> I initially posted a message about my translation
> https://groups.google.com/d/topic/lojban/da6VUtMDDLE/discussion
>
> saying "Feedback is more than welcomed."
>
> However, no such feedback has ever been provided in the mailing list.
>
> If someone disagrees with the localization or wants to suggest something
> the correct algorithm is
> TO PROVIDE FEEDBACK
>
> like Ilmen just did.
>
> The same applies to other projects where I'm asking for help. If a help or
> feedback is requested then it's needed!
> Don't hesitate to reply to such requests!
>

I'm sorry for not providing feedback there, but it's because the
problem of {la'oi} in the search box is too indifferent for me to post
a message.

{la'oi} is roughly as good as {la'o zoi ... zoi} in the conditions given.

I'm completely surprised that pure technical issues taking place beyond Lojbanistan are thought to be related to something inside.

The problem became however important after I found your
intolerance of my experimental parsers: it was a turning point that
you became my eternal enemy.

I'm intolerant to everything beyond CLL. Even my unofficial parsers are merely a playtoy, a tool to study Lojban, not to break it.

Changing Lojban is breaking its community which already happened once in 2004.

It's a pity that the current Lojban is probably irreversibly incompatible with CLL, I only have to accept that and perceive as if the language is starting from scratch. But I of course can't accept if this is going to happen on a regular basis. That's why my intolerance over even more backward incompatible changes.