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Re: [lojban] Re: [Llg-members] A story of "Search %s" string in Vivaldi browser





2015-12-20 12:32 GMT+03:00 guskant <gusni.kantu@gmail.com>:


Le dimanche 20 décembre 2015 08:57:23 UTC, la gleki a écrit :


2015-12-20 11:24 GMT+03:00 guskant <gusni...@gmail.com>:
2015-12-20 7:09 GMT+00:00 Gleki Arxokuna <gleki.is...@gmail.com>:

>
>
> 2015-12-18 14:37 GMT+03:00 Ilmen <ilmen....@gmail.com>:
>>
>>
>> On 18/12/2015 09:23, Gleki Arxokuna wrote:
>>>
>>> When I was translating Vivaldi browser interface to Lojban I aimed at the
>>> full translation of 100% of strings, which ended in Lojban being added to
>>> Vivaldi beta version while Esperanto and Ido got removed due to incomplete
>>> translations.
>>>
>>> However, I faced one string that I couldn't unambiguously translate. The
>>> string is
>>> "Search" and the browser uses that to form a placeholder in the browser
>>> search inputbox to form "Search Google", "Search Bing" and similar.
>>>
>>> And what I found is that Lojban presents no solutions.
>>> 1. I used {sisku sepi'o la'oi} => {sisku sepi'o la'oi Google}. The
>>> experimental cmavo {la'oi} quotes one word that must not contain spaces of
>>> pauses inside. Hence, its immediate drawback. Users can add a search engine
>>> leading to {sisku sepi'o la'oi Lojban MediaWiki} where "MediaWiki" hangs in
>>> space.
>>> 2. Neither {la'o zoi.XXX.zoi} method is fine. A search engine named
>>> ".zoi" leads to {la'o zoi..zoi.zoi} quoting an empty string and the last
>>> ".zoi" hangs in space. The browser is not able to change "zoi" separators on
>>> the fly.
>>> 3. However, the solution in English is unambiguous. It's a user interface
>>> widget, kinda {lu ... li'u} quoted text.
>>>
>>> widget (inputbox) boundaries are analogous to this {lu ... li'u}.
>>>
>>> This text can't refer to anything outside it, it's a thing in itself but
>>> this thing can be parsed and used by external mechanisms.
>>>
>>> "Search Lojban MediaWiki" means that after "Search " we have an arbitrary
>>> plain text in an unknown language until End Of Feed is reached.
>>>
>>> I imagine Lojban community could extend {la} to be able to catch
>>> non-Lojban text until the end of file/feed is reached.
>>>
>>> But in the current conditions I see it as a drawback of the language.
>>>
>>
>> Maybe this should be discussed on the BPFK mailing list rather than here.
>
>
> Missed that sentence.
> Yes and no.
>
> Technically Lojban has a solution (la'o zoi ... zoi with changing delimiters
> when needed).
> But then comes a part not dependent on the language.
> I initially posted a message about my translation
> https://groups.google.com/d/topic/lojban/da6VUtMDDLE/discussion
>
> saying "Feedback is more than welcomed."
>
> However, no such feedback has ever been provided in the mailing list.
>
> If someone disagrees with the localization or wants to suggest something
> the correct algorithm is
> TO PROVIDE FEEDBACK
>
> like Ilmen just did.
>
> The same applies to other projects where I'm asking for help. If a help or
> feedback is requested then it's needed!
> Don't hesitate to reply to such requests!
>

I'm sorry for not providing feedback there, but it's because the
problem of {la'oi} in the search box is too indifferent for me to post
a message.

{la'oi} is roughly as good as {la'o zoi ... zoi} in the conditions given.
I'm completely surprised that pure technical issues taking place beyond Lojbanistan are thought to be related to something inside.

 
The problem became however important after I found your
intolerance of my experimental parsers: it was a turning point that
you became my eternal enemy.

I'm intolerant to everything beyond CLL. Even my unofficial parsers are merely a playtoy, a tool to study Lojban, not to break it.
Changing Lojban is breaking its community which already happened once in 2004.

It's a pity that the current Lojban is probably irreversibly incompatible with CLL, I only have to accept that and perceive as if the language is starting from scratch. But I of course can't accept if this is going to happen on a regular basis. That's why my intolerance over even more backward incompatible changes.


Teaching {la'oi} in your course and abusing a statement in NU clause: what a double standard of you! It's you who broke so-called Lojbanistan by expelling me. 

1. I didn't expel you. I'm just documenting what people are using. As I said I perceive the situation as starting the language from scratch. But when some person says "let's drop this usage" it's breaking communication. 
2. Am I supposed not to teach {la'oi}? Then how one would understand what this {la'oi} means?
3. People are using {la'oi}. I don't understand how {la'oi} breaks CLL. This particle is backward compatible. What problems are you having with it? I can only see that for you {la'oi} is not neutral towards Polynesian languages. But we already know that Lojban is not neutral. Why are you accusing me of teaching it? The little blame gets all the blame? The same as before. If one does nothing 'ey can't be blaimed. Is this what is desired?
4. I don't understand what does mean "abusing a statement in NU clause"? Using {nu} where {du'u} is to be used? It's from xorxe's Alice. If there is some underformalization going on I don't have time to resolve it when everything is working anyways.

 

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