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Re: [lojban] Re: Gismu in need of place structure extensions



On 6/25/2020 2:03 PM, deusexmadmachina@gmail.com wrote:

On Thursday, June 25, 2020 at 12:33:14 PM UTC-4, Gleki Arxokuna wrote:

    No. Precisely zi'o since the place structure would be different
    changing semantics

This doesn't follow. The presence of a {zo'e} //in a bridi does not imply the existence of an entity for which the bridi holds if the {zo'e} is substituted for that entity. That's {da}. As an elliptical, {zo'e} assumes the value of whatever sumti is contextually implied... and if context implies that nothing fits in that place, that sumti is {zi'o}.

No. zi'o is not a possible value to fill an elided place. It is grammatically a sumti, but semantically it is more than merely a null-value, because it changes the nature of the underlying relationship/predication. To allow that would destroy one of the fundamental logical parts of the language, which is that even if a place is elided, it is still implicitly a part of the predication/relationship.

It was not originally a part of the language, but was added as a shortcut for people that did not want to create new words for restricted concepts.

"noda" is also not a plausible elidable value for a similar reason.

Moreover, {kelci} is already sometimes used in the sense of playing a game,

kelci as it is works whether one is playing a game or not. "Playing a game" is usually a subset of "playing". (It might be argued that professional players of a game or sport are not really "playing" in the broad sense intended for kelci. "Play" generally connotes recreational or non-serious activity in the broad sense, and strict rules and/or strong goal-directed (as in for money or other high stakes) really deviates from that broad sense and probably should have separate word(s) invoking the set of rules and/or the system of play and/or the goals.

in general, adding a place to a place structure is a restriction of meaning. gismu were designed to be broad, with the intent that lujvo would be created to make such restrictions of meaning.

lojbab

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