Re: [bpfk] Re: O HAI I FIXT UR LODGEBANZ

[Jorge Llambías <jjllambias@gmail.com>]

On Fri, Oct 15, 2010 at 4:53 PM, John Cowan <cowan@ccil.org> wrote:
> 2010/10/15 Jorge Llambías <jjllambias@gmail.com>:
>
>> What is strange is when a question is embedded in a subordinate bridi.
>> I'm pretty sure Lojban must violate some language universal there, but
>> I don't really know enough about it to be sure, it's just a feeling.
>
> Not at all.  English (unlike Chinese, Turkish, and Lojban) fronts its
> question words, and can do so from arbitrarily deep in the
> clause-tree:
>
> Who was it you said John saw (t) walking with Mary?
> Who was it you said George heard John saw (t) walking with Mary?
> ...
>
> where "(t)" marks the "trace", the point from which the question-word
> was fronted.

Right, fronting is basically yanking it out of the subordinate clause.
Just as with quantifiers.


> Or, in the mood of disbelief (which is in the Chinese or Lojban style
> for normal questions):
>
> You said John saw WHO walking with Mary??!
> You said George heard John saw WHO walking with Mary??!
> ...

OK. I think my issue in the case of Lojban is that quantifiers need to
be fronted for them to have scope over the matrix, whereas questions
have matrix scope without being fronted. I find it somewhat dissonant.

>> So what you are saying is that you support the second "jei":
>>
>>       jei ... = se jetlai lo du'u ...
>>
>> Do I understand you correctly? That one cannot be used as the x2 of djuno.
>
> That sounds right to me.

OK. That's how I have defined it in jbovlaste. I don't really think
that meaning particularly deserves a cmavo, but I don't need "jei" for
anything else, so I don't care.

mu'o mi'e xorxes

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