Re: [bpfk] type-3 fu'ivla with different kinds of rafsi

[Jorge Llambías <jjllambias@gmail.com>]

On Wed, Oct 27, 2010 at 2:41 PM, John Cowan <cowan@mercury.ccil.org> wrote:
> Pierre Abbat scripsit:
>
>> I think that anything that *looks* like a type-3 should *be* a type-3,
>
> I can live with that if you confine the definition of "type 3" to 4-letter
> rafsi, because crunchy consonant clusters CCRC are fairly rare in natlangs.

4-letter type-3 can also be just CRC, if the four letter rafsi is CCVC.

The way I see it, the distinguishing feature of a type-3 is the awful
-CR- syllable, it doesn't matter much if the classifier is CVCC-R-,
CCVC-R-, or CVC-R-.

> Adding another rule to see whether a proposed type-4 collides with a type-3
> that has a 3-letter rafsi strikes me as excessively complicated; type-4
> fu'ivla are hard enough to generate and validate as it is.

The current version of the PEG morphology doesn't bother to
distinguish fu'ivla types, but a previous version did. It's not that
hard to add a rule to separate them, if we wanted to do it. "fu'ivla"
already are basically "whatever is left" anyway, so selecting three
specific shapes out (namely "CVCCRC...V", "CCVCRC...V", and
"CVCRC...V") is really simple.

>> BTW, I'd say "sparganio".
>
> I think letting CiV and CuV into fu'ivla is a bad idea.  Part of the
> reason we banned them in rafsi (and consequently in lujvo) was to prevent
> them from disappearing into mere palatalization and labialization of
> the preceding C.

I wish we could come to a consensus on this. On the one hand, I tend
to agree with John in principle, on the other hand, these forms are
already quite widespread in practice, and nobody but John (and,
depending on the day, me) seems to care (and then why couldn't "a mere
palatalization and labializaton" not be an allowed realization of
them).

mu'o mi'e xorxes

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