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Re: [bpfk] official cmavo form



On 10/21/2014 2:08 PM, John Cowan wrote:
If /'/ is to be kept distinct from /x/, /'/ must be [T], giving [aTua]
for /a'ua/, which is unlikely to become [awa].

I'm not sure if this is meant to be an anglophone or a universal claim.
Anglophones tend to render [x] as [k], as in _loch, bach, Bach_, and
Germans have no problem distinguishing /h/ and /x/ systematically,
though it's arguable that there are no [h] : [x] minimal pairs, as [h]
is only in onsets whereas /x/ in onsets is realized (in the standard
accent, at least) as /C/.

It would be an assimilation rather than a fortition. As I've said
before, [h] is articulatorily impossible as a realization of /'/
in some environments, e.g. /i'i/, at ordinary speech rates,

I articulate /i'i/ as [iCi], /u'u/ as [uWu], /ii/ as /j\i/ (with a voiced
palatal fricative like Spanish-Spanish "y"), and /uu/ as [wu].

Obviously it was the glideless /ae, ea, aa/ type that led to Lojban's
"'". That in itself was not so bad a move, tho the choice of realization
was, but making it contrastive with zero between other vowels gives
greater headaches. I'd have just forbidden them altogether; going all
Livagian on their ass, I'd allow i to be followed by any vowel but i,
u to be followed by any vowel but u, e to be followed by no vowel but i,
o to be followed by no vowel but u, and a to be followed by no vowel
but i and u.

This would, of course, involve a complete discarding of the cmavo list and
starting over.


I haven't been following this discussion, and I'm not sure what is written in CLL about it, but I think what we said originally was that the apostrophe could permissibly be realized as ANY unvoiced consonant sound not otherwise found in Lojban (but hopefully being fairly consistent at using the same sound all the time). One of our original Lojban students liked to tease everyone by using unvoiced "th" as his realization of all apostrophes. It sounded funny and probably caused everyone else to try harder to use 'h'.

lojbab

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