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Re: [bpfk] official cmavo form

John Cowan, On 20/10/2014 15:13:

And Rosta scripsit:


Why must Lojban have onsets and syllabification? /Cia/ is problematic
only if /Ci-/ must constitute an onset.


It's settled that "ia" is /ja/.


Does /j/ (corresponding to orthographic <i> rather than <j>) actually exist? Are minimal pairs possible with /i/:/j/?

I'd propose that "ia" should be /ia/.


How about {a'ua}?


By avoiding things like this, we keep Lojban /h/ safely ambisyllabic.
Allowing /ahwa/ means we have to choose between coda /h/ (hard for
anglophones and many others) and onset /hw/ (hard for most anglophones,
who no longer have a /w/ ~ /W/ distinction).


These problems arise when {a'ua} is analysed as something other than /a'ua/. If Lojban has no /u/:/w/ contrast -- as the impossibility of minimal pairs would show -- then /ahwa/ and /awha/ are not possible analyses. I think syllabification is likely an unnecessary complication, but I don't see why /'/ in /a'ua/ couldn't be ambisyllabic.

We have no shortage of possible cmavo.  Let's not go toward hC or Ch
clusters (where C = any consonant including /j/ and /w/).


The simplest phonological analysis of Lojban is one in which there are no clusters at all. The only phonotactic rules necessary are that a C many be adjacent only to a V, a V may be adjacent only to a C or a glide V of a type other than its own, and /%/ (or however we symbolize the buffer vowel) may be adjacent only to a C.

I realize the current rules are much more complex. I'm just noting that with no detriment they could be simplified to what I've set out. (I would actually advocate slightly more restrictions on VV sequences, tho.)


I think Lojban already has way more phonotactic constraints than is
necessary...


I wish we had more, but our lujvo-making machinery prevents some that
would be really useful, like not allowing both "denbro" and "dembro".


Those are problematic only when there has been excessive syncope of /%/.
--And. 

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