Re: [bpfk] {e'i} in usage and in the wiki

2014-11-22 19:33 GMT+03:00 Jorge Llambías <jjllambias@gmail.com>:

On Sat, Nov 22, 2014 at 11:37 AM, Gleki Arxokuna <gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com> wrote:

Usage tells that:
ei mi cliva - conventions/rules dictate that I leave.
e'i mi cliva - the situation forces me to leave.
ei is a UI for {sei mi te javni}.
e'i is a UI for {sei mi bilga}.

That would mean "e'i" can only be used with "mi" as agent

oops, sorry. the two my definitions of {e'i} contradict each other.

Let me try once again:

ei mi cliva - conventions/rules dictate that I leave.

e'i mi cliva - the situation forces me to leave.

ei = sei [lo nu no'a cu] se javni

e'i = sei [lo nu no'a cu] se bapli [be lo nau tcini]

by [lo nu no'a] I mean the event of the bridi in which the sei-clause is inserted.

, but I see a lot of usage of these words with sentences where "mi" is not the agent. Some random examples for ".e'i" from korpora zei sisku:

Do you think they reflect the meaning that you suggest for {e'i}?

E.g. this is how I understand them (recurring examples are not translated):

do sanga .e'i = It has to be so that you sing.

.i mi do viska sei .e'i do terpa = ?

.au .ei .e'i do cilre fi lo cnima'o = It should and has to be so that you learn about cnima'o, and I wish it was so.

.i .e'i lo xekri cu kelci

.i .e'i zo_cu .e nai zo_xu co'e

.uinai .e'i do toljundi mi

.i lo te pilno .e lo te xamgu cu .e'i se setca

.i ku'i .e'i mi'o denpa = We have to wait

.e'i ko ta mi dunda = It has to be so that you wait so wait!

I can agree with And that "to have to" might not be an illocutionary thing but rather a modal but then how can these examples be understood otherwise?

So my question is why e'i was moved from {ei} group into {e'V} group turning it into kinda imperative marker.

I don't think it was moved as such. CLL doesn't even give an example with ".e'i", so it's not very clear that it wasn't in the e'V group from the start. Since you can use ".e'i" for a first person imperative anyway, it just makes sense to define it as a regular member of the e'V group.

mu'o mi'e xorxes

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