Makes sense to me. Thanks for translating/sending. The BPFK does write cmavo definitions, so the guidelines may be relevant. I am a huge fan of eliminating slashes from definitions wherever possible -- the slashes create ambiguities when reading. It's like a universal connective system, except in English, unlike Lojban, you can't tell unambiguously what the connective is supposed to be connecting.
As for sumti slots in lujvo definitions, I favor the hybrid system (x1=g1=s2 is a thing with ...). It's visually noisy, but it manages to (1) number the places without obliging the reader to count and (2) show the "etymology" of each place, where that is relevant. I consider (1) more important -- perhaps the notes are a better place to say which terjvo came from which veljvo. I don't like using only the gismu_first_letter+N system because then the N doesn't correspond to the FA you need to use and you have to count while reading the definition.
I agree that example sentences should be linked to their natlang equivalents. I never understood why JVS doesn't do that. I know that part of the point of an example is just to show the word in context, but the translation is often necessary too. A workaround is to put something like {lu ... li'u xe fanva zoi gy. ... .gy} as the example.
- mu'o mi'e durkavore
On May 27, 2015 at 4:07:40 PM, Ilmen (ilmen.pokebip@gmail.com) wrote:
I don't know how much dictionary definition guidelines are relevant
to the BPFK, but for lack of a better alternative, I've sent
Naours' proposal here, to the BPFK list.
Indeed, even if the BPFK were to publish official definition
guidelines or recommendations, this wouldn't magically change all
the existing definitions ; however this may be a good idea in order
that future/newer definitions have a nicer and more consistent
style.
Also, it would be nice to have official recommendations on how to
represent sumti slots in Lujvo definitions. As of now, the x+N
system, the gismu_first_letter+N system and a mix of both systems
are currently in use, which make lujvo definitions' style
inconsistent across the dictionary.
As a side note, it's not yet possible to attach a natural language
translation to Lojban sentence examples in Jbovlaste, so there may
also be technical hindrances to such a proposal. However it's still
possible to put translated examples directly into the notes field,
although it's conceptually less nice.
mi'e la .ilmen. mu'o
On 27/05/2015 21:41, Ilmen
wrote:
coi
ro do
A couple of weeks ago, Naours
(aka Xelan) suggested to make an official set of style guidelines
for Lojban word definitions, in order to have definitions that look
better and have a consistent style across the dictionary.
Those guidelines would also aim at reducing the use of slashes '/'
in definitions, favoring the use of the gloss fields for listing
natural language equivalent words or expressions. The rational for
this is that slashes make definitions more clunky and less pretty,
and the result can be awkward in languages with inflectional
agreements.
Below is Naours' proposal, translated from French and slightly
modified/adjusted by me (hopefully without misrepresenting the idea
of its author).
mu'o mi'e la .ilmen.
−−−−−−−−−−−−−−−−−−−−−−−−−−−−−−−−−−−−
Propositions:
* Most important points:
→ Each definition must have a clear description. Slashes '/'
should be avoided as much as possible, as they hinder comprehension
and make definitions look awkward.
→ Each definition must have a simple description: the
description is written using simple terms, even if that leads to
more verbosity.
→ Each definition must have a description as generic as
possible: only one term per concept, as generic as possible for
encompassing the other appropriate terms.
→ Every terms corresponding to the described concept are
recorded in the gloss fields.
→ The etymologies are presented along with the definition in
order to retain the term and its origin.
→ The various sumti types must be specified between
parentheses:
— Proposition (bridi abstractor - lo du'u)
— Event (action or state; event abstractor - lo
nu)
— Property/dimension (property abstractor - lo
ka)
— Quantity (quantity abstractor - lo ni)
* Points that may need to be further discussed:
→ The sumti are described using singular definite
articles.
Expected results example:
balni (gimsu)
Description: x1 is a platform overhanging on facade x2
Gloss: {balcony, overhang, ledge, shelf}
Exemple 1:
(English): This is a balcony
(Lojban): ti balni
Exemple 2:
(English): The balcony of this building
(Lojban): lo balni be lo vi dinju
Etymology:
Chinese: iantai
English: balkani
Hindi: baramda
Spanish: balkon
Russian: balkon
Arabic: curfa
Notes:
Some points are rather advanced, and it will maybe be necessary to
modify/improve/remove them.
mu'o mi'e la .na'urs.
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