Le jeudi 5 mars 2015 19:02:23 UTC+9, la gleki a écrit :
2015-03-05 12:32 GMT+03:00 guskant
<gusni...@gmail.com>:
I think {PA-masti} or {PA-ma'i} type lujvo or the derived fu'ivla are not very suitable for January, February etc., because the latters are rather related to {detri} or {detke'u}, a position on a calendar
Earlier I called this splicing time intervals.
ie zo citsi ji'a srana iku'i lo se stidi be mi cu se jicmu lo du'u se detri kei tezu'e lo nu zanfri tu'a lo re moi be lo terbri be fi lo du'u detri
, while {masti} means a duration according to a calendar system. In other words, {la'o zoi January zoi la'o zoi March zoi dunli lo ka masti li pa la gregoris}. Any lujvo constructed from {masti se detri be li pa} would be suitable, but it seems too long for frequent use. So I've just created a series of zi'evla for month names in la jbovlaste. Vote up or down as you like.
zi'evla created:
masnpa masnre masnci masnvo masnmu masnxa masnze masnbi masnso masndau masnfei masngai masnjau masnrei (ja masnxei) masnvai
I wanted to create them in the form of {PAgmese} where -g- is for Gregorian however this requires multiplying entities and doesn't solve the problem of "tomorrow", "next hour" etc.
My suggestion is based on {se detri}, and it does not restrict the calendar to Gregorian. When you set the catendar to {lo nau me mi}, you can use {masnpa} for "next month", or you can creat {maslni'upa} for "last month". However, using the series for that purpose is not very lojbo, because there are aleph-null number of months, and number of brivla should be finite, and lojban words should not conjugate. For such a purpose, we should use a cmavo of MOI like {moi'o}.
Also this isnot a solutions of when saying "In year 2000". Shall we create thousands of new fu'ivla for each splicing year?
We could if we assume that they are regular and thus aren't needed to be added into dictionaries.
{moi'o} is fine but lengthy.
As I said above, similar method to {masnPA} series is not applicable for non-recurring system. Use or create a cmavo of MOI for that.
As for "in year 2000", it is rather generally translated to a kind of BAI, not a brivla. I prefer saying {de'i li renonono [noi sinxa lo nanca ku'o]}, where [noi sinxa lo nanca ku'o] is omissible for casual use.
For now I ended using {de'i li pi'e PA} for months and {de'i li pi'e pi'e PA} for years. One of course could invent a shorter cmavo instead of {pi'e} but this two-syllableness is not a problem for some dialects.
You seem to be confused with BAI. My suggestion is brivla based on {se detri} for recurring system.
Moreover, your numbering system is European style, but I prefer ISO 8601 style. In both case, {pi'e}s are omissible. To make the meaning clearer, you can mention a phrase [noi sinxa lo nanca/masti/jeftu/djedi ku'o].
To make them shorter, suggest a series of BAI like {de'i'a} {de'i'e} {de'i'i} {de'i'o} {de'i'u} if you want. I don't know how to use the fifth; may be for a century, or a day of the week? I would suggest as follows.
{de'i'a li repa} : in the 21st century
{de'i'e li renopamu} : in the year 2015
{de'i'i li ci} : in the third month
{de'i'o li mu} : in the fifth day of the week (it may be better than "in the fifth week of a month" for frequent use)
{de'i'u li xa} : on the sixth day of the month
I still want the calendar {ve de'i} not to be fixed to Gregorian, in general.
(URLs of the entries are listed below.)
Officially, {mas-n-re} and {mas-n-rei} are considered to be stage-3 fu'ivla, and they have the same problem as {PA-masti}/{PA-ma'i} type lujvo, that {malsi} (not even {masti}) should form the main place structure. Actually, only {masnre} and {masnrei} have the form of stage-3 fu'ivla among the above mentioned zi'evla. The others are in stage-4 form which produces no similar problem. If I used 'l'-hyphen instead of 'n', they would have been all in stage-4 form, but I prefer 'snr'-string that is easier to pronounce than 'slr'.
{masn[PA]} is defined as follows:
$x_1$ se detri li [PA] noi sinxa lo [PA] moi be lu'i ro da poi masti li pa gi'e pagbu $x_2$ noi nanca li pa lu'u ku'o $x_3$ boi $x_4$
$x_1$ (event/state) is in the [PA-th month/...] of a year $x_2$ at location $x_3$, by calendar $x_4$.
{masnrei} (ja {masnxei}) may mean Duodecimber in 46 BC.
{masnvai} was created just for consistency.
You forgot about 5 extra days in Egyptian (12 x 30 + 5) and 4 extra days in Baha'i calendars (19 x 19 + 4). Should them be masnjau?
I don't know if those extra days are considered to form an extra month or not. If a speaker considers them to form a month, {masnjau} is applicable of course.
examples:
lo cabna cu masnci lo nanca noi se detri li renopamu ku'o mi la gregoris
i
da masnjau lo nanca noi se detri lo muzezevo ku'o zo'e lo xebro
i
lo detke'u be lo nunmro be la gandis noi banli cu masnpa
What in the case that the thirteenth month is inserted between for example the sixth and the seventh? I'm not sure, the lojban translation may depend on $x_4$, say {1,2,3,4,5,6,13,7,8,9,10,11,12} or {1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13}, both are possible.
On another planet, we might need the 16th or higher month, then just create {masnpaxa} and so on.
For the same reason, {PA-dei} type lujvo seem not to be very suitable for Monday, Tuesday etc., though I have not yet inserted the corresponding zi'evla into la jbovlaste.
Note that here I oppose mapping number 1 to Monday since this may confuse a lot of people, notable speaking Portuguese.
I ended using {lurdei} system.
Some existing cultures conflict on the definition of names of days of the week on Gregorian. {lurdei}-system is not suitable for Chinese speakers, who are the most on the Earth. I think Lojban must select one as a default use, just like we did on the meaning of {na go'i} in the section 15.9 of CLL. That selection does not mean excluding other cultures, because we have x4 to select a calendar.
I prefer
{jednpa} for "the first day of a week",
{jefnpa} for "the first week of a month",
{detnpa} for "the first day of a month", etc.
to {PAvdei} system and {lurdei} system because of the basis {se detri} and the consistency in all recurring items of a calendar.
mu'o