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fancu (was: Anything but tautologies)

On Sun, 17 Feb 2002, Jorge Llambias wrote:

> la xod cusku di'e
> >"f(x)" and "x + 2" don't have any relationship except functionhood.
> John is a person.
> "John" is the name of a person.
> My friend is a person.
> "My friend" is an expression used to refer to a person.
> My friend is John.
> "My friend" is not "John", they are different ways of
> referring to the same person.
> f(x) is a function.
> "f(x)" is a way of referring to a function.
> x+2 is a function.
> "x+2" is an expression used to refer to a function.
> f(x)=x+2.
> "f(x)" is not "x+2", they are different ways of referring
> to the same function.
> In Lojban, we say {la djan prenu} or {le mi pendo cu prenu}.
> We might say {le mi pendo cu du la djan}, but we don't say
> {la djan cu prenu le mi pendo} for "John is a person who
> is my friend". We don't have any predicates (other than {du})
> that have two places for the same argument. Apparently {fancu}
> is the other exception, since x1 and x4 appear to be places
> for the same argument. (The argument is NOT the referring
> expression, the argument is the referent of the expression.)

I am not sure that we disagree on the above. Except, when you single out
fancu as being the only gismu that contains a name, what about "cmene"?
You're right: "f(x)" and "x + 2" are related by cmene, and probably sinxa,
tcita, and smuni.

> >The fancu2, 3 should refer to the axes or real quantities in question. But
> >these are sets, not single values.
> So you say, but you don't follow your prescription. The last time
> you used {fancu} you wrote:
> >>fancu ro velvecnu le jei mi tervecnu kei lipa
> >>For every price, the truth value of whether or not I buy it is unity.
> You had each price as x2, and truth values as x3. You did not
> have a set of prices in x2 nor a set of truth values in x3. You
> were using it (with respect to x2 and x3) the way I say it should
> be used.

In ro velvecnu, the nalsku gadri is lo, which can refer to multiple
referents. If I say "every price", how many do you think I am referring
to? Probably, more than one.

In jei mi tervecnu, it's true that the one value used in that range is 1.
But the value of jei spans [0, 1], so in general, that is a real quantity.

The tao that can be tar(1)ed
is not the entire Tao.
The path that can be specified
is not the Full Path.