On Dec 26, 2007 4:06 PM, Jorge Llambías <
jjllambias@gmail.com> wrote:
On Dec 26, 2007 5:49 PM, Michael Turniansky <
mturniansky@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Maybe it's the particular example that's causing my point to not be
> understood.. .let's try this --
>
> mi nelci lo nu pinxe la'o .ie. melo .ielo .ie sodva (intending to mean "I
> like to drink Mello Yello soda".)
True. What I had, while still grammatical, was "I like an (event-of-drinking-Mello-Yello) type of soda" But please, doin't get bogged down in the minutiae of semantics. The question here is one of parsing.
> Now, since we paused before the Yello in
> speech, it is interpreted identically to "mi nelci lo nu pinxe la'o .ie melo
> .ie lo .ie sodva" (since there is no need to pause after the unquote.
Correct.
> This
> has the meaning of "I like to drink "Mello" out of a <agrrement> soda"
> Hence, the need for the restriction.
the words {ie} nor {lo} as delimiters.
ienaicai! The whole point of la'o is that NOTHING is parsed inside of the quoted string. It's foreign. You can use sounds and tones that don't exist in lojban and, yes, even pauses in the middle of words. That's why the ONLY thing that resumes the lojbanic parsing is the close quote, which is the pause and the identical sounds used at the beginning. Everything is a black box as far as lojban is concerned, and the whole la'o X Y X just ="[some non-lojban name]" But I guess we're going around in circles, here. I understand your point. It's IF we were parsing inside the la'o quote, so that "cmavo" would fall off the front of words that would be considered gismu, lujvo, fu'ivla or cmavo clusters, then we can't use those as guard words, and using cmevla as guard words is okay, too, since if they were to be interpreted as guard words, they would have to have a pause AFTER them as well. Simliar reasoning applies to using brivla as guard words, I suppose, too (I haven't worked out all the permutations). But I contend none of this is germaine because we are NOT parsing inside the la'o except lsitening for a pause and the sounds. The grammar says ya can't put the sound (or string if written) anywhere in the quoted string, and I'm holding to that. I think this discussion has reached an end, and certainly any more would not belong on the beginner's list
{jaireicnz} is parsed as one word, so it can be quoted with any word except
for the word {jaireicnz} itself. The words {jai}, {rei}, even {reicnz} are all
available as delimiters. Even if they wouldn't be the clearest choices, they
would be accepted by the parser and don't cause ambiguity.
--gejyspa