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[lojban-beginners] Re: confusing gismus

Vid Sintef wrote:

mluni (x1 is a satellite/moon orbiting x2 with characteristics x3,
orbital parameters x4)
lunra (x1 is Earth's moon (default); x1 is a major natural
satellite/moon of planet x2)


A "mluni" includes just about anything that orbits a planet, including
I believe man-made satellites and so forth.  A "lunra" is only a very
substantial satellite, such as our moon.


Yes, but I don't understand why "lunra" should lack such essantial
meanings which are found in the x3 and x4 of "mluni". Natural moons
are equally likely to possess particular characteristics & orbital
parameters as man-made satellites are. Since a thing's artificiality
or non-artificiality can easily be expressed with "rutni" or "rarna"
respectively whenever precision is needed, I don't really see why
these two gismu haven't been unified, allowing for more derivative
lujvo. Their glosses, "satelite/moon" and "lunar" are already
confusing, I feel.
It is important, when considering the meaning of gismu, to think of how they might be used in tanru and lujvo with compound meanings. A lot of concepts associated with space travel and astrophysics would be represented better with mluni. Concepts that are associated with the cultural and metaphorical aspects of the moon would use lunra (moonlight, man in the moon). If we ever build a moon base, it will more likely be associated with lunra as well, with terdi being used for "earthlight". 


molki (x1 is a mill/foundry/industrial plant/[assembly line]
performing process x2)
fanri (x1 is a factory/foundry/industrial plant/mill producing x2 from
materials x3)


I'm not sure about this one, but it seems like a "molki" doesn't
necessarily produce a tangible product?


I think there are many cases in which it does. Wikipedia has dedicated
articles on cotton mill, paper mill, sawmill, gristmill, steel mill,
sugar mill, among others, all of which produce tangible products.

Also I wonder why a "fanri" should not have a process while a "molki" should.
The point was specifically to make a distinction between manufacturing (I think a factory was originally a manufactory) that makes products, and industrial processing, which might or might not produce anything final. All of those mills you list produce processed outputs, but very few produce goods in a final form that you would buy in a store. A steel mill is thus distinct from an automobile factory.
If you describe the mill in terms of the type of processing it does, you probably have a molki. If you describe it in terms of its products, it is probably a fanri. If you are describing it in terms of its inputs you might use either (the place structure of a fully expanded process will include inputs, processing steps and outputs) 


I think with words like "skapi" and "lunra" you must allow that Lojban
is not intended to avoid having a *human* bias. ;)


It's interesting because Lojban does not have a human bias with
"prenu", which I think is a nice thing. R2-D2 from Star Wars can be
called a "prenu" because it displays personality, zo'o.
I am a cat owner. My cats have distinct personality, so I can call then prenu. I would not however call them remna.
Lojban does have a human bias in that we have remna, and we do not have a word for any specific type of non-human intelligence. If we ever need one, I am sure someone will find a way to squeeze it in. Until then, we'll use a fu'ivla for Klingons and their language %^) 

lojbab