[lojban-beginners] Re: crazy thing for a friend

[tijlan <jbotijlan@gmail.com>]

2009/11/1 Ryan Leach <rsw.leach@gmail.com>:
> I promise By Honor, By Blood, By Tribe
> I promise to worship no king or god, spouse or parent, man or beast or
> anything of which I may conceive.
> I promise to honor and defend the Seven Generation Law.
> I promise never to wage war as the Dreamers wage war, and to oppose
> such wars when and where I find them.
> I promise not to impose my preferences regarding how to live on
> others, respecting the idea that there is no single right way to live.
>
> Le cemlanzu returns as tribe in jbovlaste, but translates as tribal in
> the lojban translator, but I have nothing better to replace is with
> currently.

"x1 is a tribe" can be the same as "x1 is tribal", just like that
someone who is "a Spanish" is "Spanish".


> I asked him what a dreamer was, and apparently it's his word for
> colonialists, or industrial first world people like us. I played
> around with that and came up with nolpre or noble people (meaning
> elite classes not noble as in upstanding).

"nolpre" exist in the 'second' and 'third' world too, but not all of
them are colonialists. This is probably where the distinction between
"le" and "lo" becomes important.


> I also swapped honor for
> name in the original promise, and removed the repetition of I promise
> in each line- mostly because I'm lazy.

You could use the attitudinal "nu'e" for "I promise".


> cesri'isi'a is the word jbovlaste returns for worship (although it's a
> real tongue twister to mean- so I'm open to alternate ways to say
> 'worship').

I suggest "camsi'a". The object of worship need not be a god; it can
be a human, a pole, or a book. And the act need not be ritualistic.


> The lojban translator renders rorlei as 'engendering
> classes', but jbovlaste returns is as 'generations'- which is how I
> used it here (again, I welcome alternate versions of the word).

How about "cedgri", literally "heir-type-of group"? A human generation
is an heir to the culture/society generated by previous generations.
(The seventh generation would then be "le/la zemoi cedgri".)


> friji'etadji is my own awkward lujvo translating in the lojban
> translator as 'experienc-ing-liv-ing-method', and was my attempt at
> translating ' preferences regarding how to live' which I figured could
> easily reworked as 'lifestyle'. I didn't want to use jmive alone,
> because it seems to mean a state of being alive, rather than 'living'
> in the way that the word is used in English. So I added lifri, or to
> experience or face something, and tadji or method of doing something
> to get the lujvo I ended up with here.

Then you're looking for a lujvo from "jmive-lifri-"
(living-experiencing-: x1 experiences in a way that x1 is alive), not
"lifri-jmive-" (experiencing-living-: x1 is alive in a way that x1
experiences).

When you say "experiencing-life-method", that is "lo nu lifri lo nu
jmive kei kei tadji". But you can't get a lujvo of that denotation by
simply aligning the selbri in the same order "lifri-jmive-tadji". In
"lo nu lifri lo nu jmive kei kei tadji", "tadji" is modified by "nu
lifri", not "nu jmive"; in a lujvo from "lifri-jmive-tadji", "tadji"
is modified by "jmive".


> I'm also less than certain about the relative clause in the first part
> of the last line. My intent was to render the last line as "I will not
> force the event-of people using my experiencing-life-method." I'm not
> sure if I got that right, even after running it through thelojban
> translator.

You forgot to turn the nu clause into a sumti with a gadri (LE). You
want a sumti after "bapli", but "nu ..." is not a sumti, it's a selbri
that contains a bridi. And it's different from relative clauses, which
are formed with NOI.

Intention can be expressed with "ai", refusal with "ainai". In this
case, "I will not force" may be rendered as "mi ai na bapli". Some
people might say "mi ainai bapli", but that sounds like "I will not
force; somebody else will", since the focus of the attitudinal is on
"mi". "mi bapli ainai" is fine, but i would still prefer "mi ai na
bapli".


mu'o mi'e tijlan