[lojban-beginners] Re: Tenses in abstractions

[Michael Turniansky <mturniansky@gmail.com>]

2010/2/27 Jorge LlambÃas <jjllambias@gmail.com>

On Sun, Feb 28, 2010 at 12:24 AM, Luke Bergen <lukeabergen@gmail.com> wrote:
> Ok, so, what you're describing, xorxes, is something different from the CLL
> I think. ÂI thought I always understood VA/ZI as sumtcita but I guess not.
> ÂThe CLL version I understand to mean that {mi citka lo plise za lo nu mi
> sipna} means "I eat the apple a medium time distance from the event of me
> sleeping". ÂCould you explain what {mi citka lo plise za lo nu mi sipna}
> means under your understanding of VA/ZI sumtcita, xorxes?

"I eat the apple an event of me sleeping ago", or Â"I eat the apple an
event of me sleeping from now". You wouldn't normally use a ZI without
a PU though, because the difference between "ago" and "hence" is
pretty drastic. The case of VA is a bit different because in space the
direction sometimes can be irrelevant.

> Thanks.
> P.S. ÂIt's a little disconcerting that I've been learning lojban for over a
> year now and have been using VA/ZI sumtcita like the CLL describes them
> without ever hearing of another way to use them.

Do you use them or see them used like that very often? In the CLL
sense they don't seem to have a lot of use (as sumtcita). As I said,
the only one I really see used as sumtcita in the CLL sense is "vi",
but even then mostly with the sense of "bu'u". Even the example that
started this:

 I do indeed use them as sumtcita to mean "time/distance away from x". (see for example, Esther, Chapter 9: .i ca le paremoi be lo'i masti be'o noi masti co me la .aDAR. ku'o ca lo pacimoi be lo'i djedi pe ra zi lo nu le selsku be le nolraitru be'o .e le flalu be fu ny. cu jai selgau kei ca le detri be lo nu platu fa lo bradi be lei bropre fi lo nu jitro by. cu dutybi'o fa py. ) I also use ZEhA x in the sense of "how much of a the duration of x". (example Esther chapte 2 -- .i ca lo tcika be tu'a le citni'u goi ko'a be'o no'u lo nu le citni'u cu klama le nolraitru po'u la .axacyveROC. ba lo nu co'e ko'a pu'e lo flalu be fi le ninmu ze'e lo masti be li pare ki'u lo nu mulno fa lo temci co nu likpu'i pe ny. ze'e lo masti be li xa bei sepi'o loi grasu be loi ciblrmoru be'o be'o kuce'o lo masti be li xa bei sepi'o loi tsapi .e loi melselpanci pe le ninmu keikeikei taiku le citni'u cu klama le nolraitru)

ÂÂÂÂÂÂÂÂÂÂÂ --gejyspa

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