On Sat, Mar 3, 2012 at 3:54 PM, Felipe Gonçalves Assis
<felipeg.assis@gmail.com> wrote:
On 3 March 2012 19:23, Jonathan Jones <
eyeonus@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Sat, Mar 3, 2012 at 10:45 AM, Felipe Gonçalves Assis
> <
felipeg.assis@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> I suggest starting with
>>
>> 2. mi me la .clalis.
>> 3. ta me la .djan.
>> 4. zo .djan. cmene ta
>>
>> Why use SE right at the beginning?
>>
> Two reasons: 1) It's a translation of "My name is 'ceqli', which is {mi se
> cmene zo....|, not {mi me la....|
> 2) In the original, the text in #2 and #4 are equivalent. Parallelism is a
> useful feature in learning.
>
faithfully. I thought the idea was just to take advantage of the pictures...
I don't think {mi me la.clalis.} is a better introductory text than {mi se cmene zo.clalis.}, especially considering that to my knowledge no jbopre has ever introduced themselves with {mi me ...}.
The idea was to make a Lojban version of it. That's more than merely the pictures. In fact, the original idea was to re-do the artwork, meaning in my mind that the content is more important than the visuals.
2) I know parallelism is important. That is why I made 2 and 3 parallel.
It is true, though, that pictures 2 and 4 are parallel.
Which is precisely why the text should be parallel in #2 & #4.
>
>>
>> Also, I recommend using the ti-series in place of the ko'a-series.
>> Using the latter while pointing can cause so much confusion...
>>
>> In 12 we may do
>>
>> 12. lo prenu cu zvati tu
>
>
> What? You do realize that in 12, ko'i (or lo prenu) and tu are referring to
> different things? In this case, I'm using tu in place of {lo vu diklo}.
>
I understand this. I made the remark precisely because {ko'i} should not be
replaced by {tu} in this sentence, but I still think that {ko'i}
should be avoided.
On the other hand, in frames 3, 4, 7 and 9, where there is pointing, the best
would be to use {ta} instead of {ko'a}/{ko'e}.
I disagree. ko'a - vo'u are Lojban's he, she, and it. Unlike most languages, we get 8 of them, and they're all gender neutral. ko'a-vo'u aren't pointing words, they refer to a specific entity, which may be explicitly made using goi, or implicitly assigned from context. Since the ceqli original is, in English, "He is yonder (the far-away there).", it is appropriate for the Lojban to be "ko'a zvati tu"
>>
>> Other suggestions:
>>
>> 17. doi .sam. ta mo / sedyta'u (no regard for the original)
>> 18. ti sedyta'u .i mi jgari lo sedyta'u lo xance .i mi xance jgari lo
>> sedyta'u
>
>
> Yeah, I'm sticking with the translation that does have regard for the
> original, but thanks.
>
Ok, but why?
Because it has regard for the original, obviously.