Re: [lojban-beginners] Re: What can you do with Lojban that you can't do with English?

[Jacob Errington <nictytan@gmail.com>]

Why would anyone say {i mi'a me lo nakspe je fetspe} ?
It seems like an extremely bad calque on English.
Why not {(lu'i) mi'a spesi'u} ?
It doesn't indicate the gender of the persons involved and it uses a
more lojbanic system (simxu + a set).

mu'o mi'e la tsani

On 17 May 2012 02:48, Jonathan Jones <eyeonus@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Thu, May 17, 2012 at 12:46 AM, Jonathan Jones <eyeonus@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> On Wed, May 16, 2012 at 11:27 PM, ianek <janek37@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 17 Maj, 05:55, Pierre Abbat <p...@phma.optus.nu> wrote:
>>> > On Wednesday 16 May 2012 20:19:41 Lindar wrote:
>>> >
>>> > > We have red chickens and cows.
>>> > > Are the cows red?
>>> >
>>> > Also, "we" = "I and who else?"
>>> >
>>> > mi'a ponse lo xunre jipci .e lo bakni — doesn't say what color the cows
>>> > are.
>>> > mi'a ponse lo xunre jipci je bakni — false, as no chicken is a cow.
>>>
>>> Aionys says that it doesn't make that assertion. According to him, "we
>>> are a husband and a wife" is {mi'a me lo nakspe je fetspe}. So even
>>> such simple things like logical connectives are controversial in
>>> Lojban... uinai
>>
>>
>> It's aionys, not Aionys, and I don't say that. {lo} is not explicit about
>> whether we are speaking of individuals or masses/sets, so it is possible to
>> have either interpretation. There is nothing controversial about this.
>>
>> To quote the tiki page on xorlo:
>>
>> lo's inner quantifier indicates the number of things we're talking about,
>> but in a slightly different fashion. "mu lo bakni cu bevri lo pipno" means
>> "Five cows each carried a piano individually". "lo mu bakni cu bevri lo
>> pipno" is ambiguous as to whether they did it individually or as a group. To
>> be clear about group-ness, use loi and friends.
>
>
> Also, I feel I should point out that in {mi'a me lo nakspe je fetspe}, it is
> obvious that "lo nakspe je fetspe" is implicitly referring to a group
> because of "mi'a", and for no other reason.
>
>>
>>
>>>
>>> > mi'a ponse lo xunre jipci .e lo xunre bakni — the cows are red.
>>> > mi'a ponse lo xunre jipci ja bakni — they're all red, but whether
>>> > they're all
>>> > chickens or all cows or a mix isn't stated.
>>>
>>> What about {mi'a ponse lo xunre jipci joi bakni}?
>>>
>>> mu'o mi'e ianek
>>>
>>> > Pierre
>>> > --
>>> > loi mintu se ckaji danlu cu jmaji
>>>
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>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> mu'o mi'e .aionys.
>>
>> .i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo'o
>> (Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D )
>>
>
>
>
> --
> mu'o mi'e .aionys.
>
> .i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo'o
> (Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D )
>
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