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Am 07.08.2012 20:47, schrieb Jonathan
Jones:
On Tue, Aug 7, 2012 at 4:50 AM, ianek <janek37@gmail.com>
wrote:
You basically confirmed what I was saying, but you formally
disagreed
with me. I don't understand. {se} acts on selbri, BAI, JA and
some
other things, but not on NU. It acts on selbri built with NU,
just
like in your examples.
{se} acts on /anything/ with an x2. {du'u} is a NU which has
an x2.
No. Despite the wording the CLL uses, a NU itself has no places
at all.
No, it doesn't. SE want to act on selbri (among other things
like connectives and TAGs), but NU are *not* selbri. If they were,
you could say *{ko'a du'u} or *{lo du'u ku}, but you can't.
>
> Whatever comes after a NU, until the {kei} (elided or
not), is "eaten" by
> the NU.
>
> So {[zo'e] du'u broda [kei] [zo'e]} means "x1 is
predication "broda"
> expressed in sentence x2".
>
> {se} merely switches the x1 and x2 of {du'u}.
It's easier pe'i to see it as switching x1 and x2 of {du'u
broda},
because places are primarily property of selbri, not
abstraction
markers.
Abstraction markers /are/ selbri. That's why they have places.
Abstractions are selbri. abstractors (which you
call "abstraction markers") are not. They do not have places. All
that a NU does is *convert*. It converts a bridi into a selbri.
Then you can apply SE on that selbri. The selbri which was created
by the NU, *that* has a place structure, depending on the NU used.
> So, for example:
>
> du'u mi nelci lo blanu kei zoi gy. I like Blue. .gy
>
> and
>
> .i zoi gy. I like Blue. .gy se du'u mi nelci lo blanu
>
> are equivalent.
Yes, and how it proves me wrong? I know all that, of course.
{du'u mi
nelci lo blanu kei} is a selbri with two places and can be
converted
with se. Why do we need to assume that SE act on NU if such
assumption
is not needed to explain the grammar?
Because it's not an assumption. It's a fact.
No, it's not.
I love how you still treat me as a complete co'a cilre.
No, I treat you like some who apparently needs to read the
relevant section of the official text on our language.
No comment.
mu'o mi'e la selpa'i
--
.i pau mi me ma .i pa mai ko mi jungau la'e di'u
.i ba bo mi va'o lo nu nelci lo nu me ma kau cu barkla
.i va'o lo nu na nelci cu denpa ti lo nu mi drata
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