On Mon, Dec 3, 2012 at 7:57 AM, Jonathan Jones <eye...@gmail.com> wrote:On Mon, Dec 3, 2012 at 5:52 AM, Michael Turniansky <mturn...@gmail.com> wrote:Yes, I believe it would, although I don't know if xorlo affects that. I didn't mean to say it wouldn't. The second sentence would be one instance of giving (e.g they presented it to her together). But the first sentence (to me) would still imply they both gave her a particular ring (since it's only specified once), but they might have given it to her at different times.--gejyspa
I don't think so, as that places specificity on the generic article. {le djine} would most certainly mean they both give her the same ring, but {lo djine} means "one or more things which actually are a ring or torus". If John gives her a donut, and Jim gives her an inner tube, then the statement {la .djan. e la .djim. dunda lo djine la .meris.} is still true.I don't know if either part of that is true. If we said "la djan dunda lo djine la meris .ije la djim dunda lo djine la meris" (which according to the CLL 14.6 is exactly equivalent to the original sentence) then we can be talking about different rings/sets of rings. The only uncertainity I expressed is whether xorlo changes that equivalence. But using "le" doesn't change that fact. But if you just meant something about how "lo" can refer to more than one thing, "le" also can. And, if we used "joi" as the connective, one or the other may not have given her anything. But all of this was outside the scope of the original quesiton
----gejyspaOn Sun, Dec 2, 2012 at 10:49 AM, Jacob Errington <nict...@gmail.com> wrote:
I'm joking far more than I'm serious in saying this, but considering that {lo djine} is a constant, wouldn't {la .djan. e la .djim. dunda lo djine la .meris.} mean that they each gave her *the same* ring :P ?.i mi'e la tsani mu'oOn 2 December 2012 10:07, Michael Turniansky <mturn...@gmail.com> wrote:
Normally, you would use a connective, like "la djan .e la djim dunda lo djine la meris" (John and Jim gave a ring to Mary, which would mean they each gave her a ring) or "a djan jo'u la djim dunda lo djine la meris" (John along with Jim gave a ring to Mary). In these cases, the x1 is the whole connected give "John and Jim", "John along with Jim")--gejyspaOn Sat, Dec 1, 2012 at 6:09 PM, Annie <park....@asb.gaggle.net> wrote:
What if, for example, two people gave one thing !one or more people? Wouldn't that be more than one x1 and, mazbe more than one x3?
Sent from my iPodBy definition, any selbri has one, and only one, "x1".
"x1" is the conventional name we use to indicate the first sumti place, "x2" is the second sumti place and so on.
It's not a strict rule, you can use othe means to indicate the sumti places of a selbri. Still there can only be one first place, one second place etc.
remodOn Tuesday, November 27, 2012, Annie wrote:--what do you d if a word has, for example, more than one x1 or whatever?
Sent from my iPodOn Tuesday, November 27, 2012, Annie wrote:How can pronouns be so complicated that you have to have a whole chapter on them?
It only seems complicated because you are thinking about them in terms of pronouns.In lojban there are no "nouns" and, hence, no "pronouns".Once you get the basic concepts of sumti and selbri, it will be easier.Exactly as {lo plise ku} is a sumti the refers to "an apple", {mi} is a sumti that refers to the current speaker, {ko'a} is a sumti that refers to whatever I had assigned to it, {ti} refers to something that is close to me and I'm pointing at and so on.This is what we intended when we said that it is better not to try to make direct comparisons between Lojban and English (or any other language). It may be useful at the beginning but should not be talen too far.remod--
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--mu'o mi'e .aionys.
.i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo'o
(Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D )
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