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Re: [lojban-beginners] precise tenru


On Thu, Sep 25, 2014 at 9:55 PM, Jorge Llambías <jjllambias@gmail.com> wrote:
On Thu, Sep 25, 2014 at 9:33 PM, Jacob Errington <nictytan@gmail.com> wrote:

In general about precise tanru though, I have a system of interpretation schemes. Tanru fit broadly into three categories:

1) Compositional tanru (interpreted with the Flipping Principle)
2) "and" tanru, interpreted as if a {je} were present
3) Metaphorical tanru

An example of the kind is "certu mutce", which I would interpret as short for "mutce lo ni certu". These are the tanru that give rise to fully regular lujvo, e.g. "cretce = x1 is very skilled at doing x2 ..."

Right, but... What is the place structure of "certu mutce"? 

A: mi certu mutce
B; do certu mutce ma
A: ???mi certu mutce lo ni certu ...
 
It doesn't make much sense to me. That's why tanru of this kind make me uncomfortable. They either don't mean what we take them to mean, or else the idea that tanru (at least those of this kind) inherit their place structure directly from their tertau needs to be revisited.

    Which is why precisely I prefer the construction "mutce certu" for that type of tanru (See, for example, my use of "mutce tatpi" in la teris p'ou lo tirxu  and "mutce badri je smaji" in le jinga guzmrkkukurbita; but yes, I will concede I would use cretce for the lujvo).  Because the primary category (tertau) of the x1 is a certu.  What sort of certu?  a mutce kind of certu.  And if you want to specify a certu in what field  you then easily say "mi mutce certu lo nu pirlarfi'i keiku  le ckule be fi loi larcu"

           --gejyspa, up to the Jewish New Year in email, just in time for the civil New Year...

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