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Re: [lojban-beginners] jbovlaste definitions



2015-07-03 5:44 GMT+03:00 Timothy Lawrence <timothy.lawrence@connect.qut.edu.au>:



Sent: Thursday, 2 July 2015 11:29 PM
 
2015-07-02 15:19 GMT+03:00 Timothy Lawrence <timothy.lawrence@connect.qut.edu.au>:
coi ro do

Is this valid: "coi .i do sanji mo"?

I was looking up words on http://jbovlaste.lojban.org/ and there was no definition for "and" in English.

Is it a question about jbovlaste, i.e. that it is confusing in not providing lojban translations of english words?


Yes.

or you jsut want to know how to say "and" in Lojban?

Yes also.
At the moment, I am trying to translate "Jack and the Beanstalk" (just that sentence, not the whole story) and I currently have "la djak. (ce?) lo se dembi stani". I'm still not quite sure which "and" to use.
I'm not sure either since i dont know the context. Likewise, one cannot translate "left" into Lojban because it has at least two meanings ("turn to the left" and "no sugar left").
But I suppose {la djak ce lo se dembi stani} is fine (Jack together with the Beanstalk).


The first question is a well known limitation of jbovlaste in being mostly a Lojban to "another language" dictionary interface.

Its main page does say "English or lojban words: [Search]" so it does seem to be an English to Lojban dictionary. If it's not intended to be, it'd be good if it said so and included a link to one.

jbovlaste is a Lojban to English (or to other languages) interface.
It has certain  limitations since e.g. some English words can be translated as a group of Lojban words which jbovlaste currently is unable of.


I'm solving this issue by providing an English to Lojban dictionary:

As for "and" most often words for it are {ce} and {e}.

mi ce do casnu lo mlatu = I and you discuss cats (i.e. we discuss it with each other)

mi e do casnu lo mlatu = I and you discuss cats. I  other words, I discuss cats, and you discuss cats. Maybe, separately, i.e. with different people.

In some dialects instead of {ce} you may use {jo'u}, instead of {e} you may use {je}.

​Having nonstandard dialects (if the dialect is changing the language rather than extending it) seems to thwart the unambiguity of the language. How would I know which dialect is being used?

There is no ambiguity arising. CLL recommends {joi}, many people use {jo'u}, {ce} is also fine. The meaning is preserved.
But using {e} or {je} in that place has the second meaning.


I want to learn "standard" Lojban.

As for the most standard dialect of Lojban the CLL, chapter 14 logical connectives are explained in full.

"If Wishes Were Horses"? I can't really follow that chapter very easily. Is there another summary that has all the "normal" uses?

Do you still have any questions on these connectives related to what you want to translate?
 


I also got the following:

No definitions found for "thing"
because it has many meanings in English. {lo dacti} is "thing", an object. 

I expected to find many entries rather than no entries, just as with "and".
For example, "medium" currently has many entries saying "in the sense of..." (although I think that is missing "in the sense of 'average'" for English).

It's a good point.
 

No definitions found for "something"

again {lo dacti}, or {da} or {zo'e}

No definitions found for "fun"
No definitions found for "solve"
No definitions found for "fix"
No definitions found for "hum"
No definitions found for "biped"
No definitions found for "fungi"
No definitions found for "fungus"
No definitions found for "mycelium"

I was wondering if anyone could fill these in for me.

well, okay. i will add them to my todo list.

Thank you :)
 

Recently, jbovlaste has had a lot of connection problems when I try to connect (the lojban.org site itself, too). Currently I cannot connect to either. Is there a local app version of jbovlaste?

 

Thanks :)

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