Re: [lojban-beginners] Re: Lojban attempt: please correct

[Timothy Lawrence <timothy.lawrence@connect.qut.edu.au>]

________________________________________
From: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com <lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com> on behalf of selpa'i <seladwa@gmx.de>
Sent: Wednesday, 26 August 2015 7:01 PM
To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [lojban-beginners] Re: Lojban attempt: please correct
>
> la'o me. Timothy Lawrence .gy cusku di'e
> > "fendi" and "simbi'o" look to be what I intended. When I searched for
> > "separate", jbovlaste didn't show "fendi" so perhaps that could be updated.
> >
> > I'm not sure why I didn't find "simbi'o" in my last search: perhaps I
> > searched for "unites" instead of "unite".
> 
> I don't think {simbi'o} means what you want. {simbi'o} means "x1
> (plural) become mutual in property x2".

Is jbovlaste wrong in its definition of "s1 (mass/set) integrate / unite with each other, displaying quality s2."?
http://jbovlaste.lojban.org/lookup?Form=lookup.pl1&Strategy=*&Database=en%3C-%3Ejbo&Query=simbi%27o&submit=Search

Actually I am looking at its place values and I understand your comments about agentives now.

Would "jongau" be better?

> 
> > My work-in-progress is:
> >
> > za'a lo bangu cu fendi ma'a.i
> >
> > ja'o lo ka remna cu simbi'o ma'a.i
> >
> > .ei ma'a cilre fi ma'a
> 
> Not that it's wrong, but I'm curious if your placement of the {.i} is
> for artistic purposes or some other reason. Usually {.i} is seen at the
> beginning of a line, but there's no rule that prescribes that. :)

I'm not sure: it seems more congruent with my thought pattern, perhaps reinforced by how I format separators when programming (C++) or full stops when writing.
Artistically I suppose having many ".i" lined up vertically stands out as being a touch repetitive/distracting? Alternatively it could be made to look quite decorative, depending on the font.
Perhaps I'll change my style when I become more fluent in Lobjan.

> 
> > To clarify, my intended meaning is:
> >
> > (I observe that) language (is something that) divides/separates
> > us-(inclusive of you and me, but also could be everyone).
> >
> > (From my deduction) humanity-(the condition of being human) unites
> > us-(inclusive of you and me, but also could be everyone).
> >
> > Each of us-(inclusive of you and me, but also could be everyone) must
> > learn (about) one another.
> 
> Ah, okay!
> 
> The only complaint I have is the use of {simbi'o}. Also you're losing
> the parallel structure because {fendi} is agentive while {simbi'o} is
> not. You could go the cheap route and use {to'e fendi} for the second
> line...
> 
> Btw, the literal (non-metaphorical) translation would probably use
> {kampu}, e.g. {lo ka remna cu kampu ma'a} "Being human is universal to
> us" ("All of us are human"), which is true but tosses away the
> metaphorical sense of "being connected".
> 
> You could always go back to {jorne}, or do something a little more
> verbose that gets the point across, like {lo nu ro ma'a remna cu rinka
> lo nu ma'a jonsi'u} or similar.
> 
> > I hope I am getting closer?
> 
> Definitely :)

How about

	za'a lo bangu cu fendi ma'a.i
	ja'o lo ka remna cu jongau ma'a.i
	.ei ma'a cilre fi ma'a

or maybe

	za'a lo bangu cu fendi ma'a.i
	ja'o lo ka remna cu jongau mi do.i
	.ei ma'a cilre fi ma'a

?

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