Re: [lojban-beginners] Just to double check, about {da} and quantifiers

[Michael Turniansky <mturniansky@gmail.com>]

2011/5/31 Jorge Llambías <jjllambias@gmail.com>:
> On Tue, May 31, 2011 at 10:28 AM, Michael Turniansky
> <mturniansky@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>  Except that you have to specify (or know by some external means)
>> that there are no true values of da that are broda  in order to make
>> "ro da poi broda" = "no da poi broda".
>
> Who said anything about making "ro da poi broda" = "no da poi broda"?

  Let me rephrase.  When you said, " If there are no cat-dogs, it's [
"ro da poi  ke'a gerku je mlatu cu broda"] true, since for every value
of da it will be false that da gerku je mlatu.", that means that there
are no cat-dogs.   In a universe where "ro da poi gerku je mlatu" is a
nomei, "no da poi gerku je mlatu" refers to the same thing (an empty
set).  But my major point was simply  that  all things that are
cat-dogs are in fact a nomei.   So for any broda, " ro da poi ke'a
gerku je mlatu ku'o va'o lo du'u da nomei cu broda" is true. Which I
contend is precisely what "[ro] lo no gerku je mlatu cu broda" means
and is therefore always true.  I know, I know. You all disagree that
it's meaningful. But then you come around and assert what I consider
to be the very same thing, just phrased differently.

              --gejyspa

> What I said was that "ro da poi broda cu brode" can be expanded to "ro
> da zo'u ganai da broda gi da brode".
>
> Similarly "su'o da poi broda cu brode" can be expanded to "su'o da
> zo'u ge da broda gi da brode".
>
> And the negations of those two:
>
> me'i da poi broda cu brode = me'i da zo'u ganai da broda gi da brode
>
> no da poi broda cu brode = no da zo'u ge da broda gi da brode
>
> In fact all four are basically the the same expansion simply by taking
> su'o da = naku no da = me'i da naku = naku ro da naku
>
> mu'o mi'e xorxes
>
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