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Re: [lojban-beginners] lo nu valsi rapli cu xe tanru fo ma
No, no. Your definition is better. Sorry. Of course it makes
sense that the x2 would be the grandchild, and the x3 relegated to a
subbridi.
--gejyspa
On Thu, Feb 3, 2011 at 10:08 AM, Luke Bergen <lukeabergen@gmail.com> wrote:
> whoops, I guess my guess at the definition of it was wrong then. I assume
> that a gloss like "grandmother" would leave the grandchild as the x2. Seems
> like a more important place. But I guess that's arbitrary. There is no
> definition of mamymamta in jbovlaste. Maybe when I get home from work I'll
> add it (unless someone beats me to it... or I forget).
>
> On Thu, Feb 3, 2011 at 10:05 AM, Michael Turniansky <mturniansky@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>>
>> On Thu, Feb 3, 2011 at 9:39 AM, .alyn.post.
>> <alyn.post@lodockikumazvati.org> wrote:
>> > Will you help clarify some confusion I'm having, then?:
>> >
>> > lo mamta => mother
>> (a/some mothers)
>> > lo se mamta => child (not quite the right gloss, I don't think that
>> > matters in this case)
>> (child of a mother)
>> > mamta => mothering/motherness?
>> >
>>
>> No. "mamta" is not "mothering/motherness" That would be "ka
>> mamta". "mamta" is a relationship. Something m1 is the mother of
>> something else, m2.
>>
>> > lo ponse => owner
>> an owner/some owners
>> > lo se ponse => possesion
>> Yes, if you mean that as a noun -- a possession/some possessions.
>> > ponse => possessing/ownership?
>>
>> No. That would be nu ponse, or ka ponse, or za'i ponse, depending
>> on how you mean it. Again, it's a relationship. "p1 is the
>> possessor of p2 under law p3"
>>
>> >
>> > I don't quite get how one gets grandmother out of mamymamta, though
>> > I've confused the special significance that an x1 place has before.
>> >
>> > It seems in this case though that mamymamta either takes one meaning
>> > for the first mam (mothering) and another meaning for the second
>> > (mother), or that my gloss for mamta is wrong and it doesn't express
>> > motherness at all, but an actual mother.
>> >
>> > What am not understanding?
>> >
>>
>> Remember that a tanru, "x1 mamta mamta x2", means that x1 is a
>> mother type of mother of x2. The exact relationship between the
>> seltau and the tertau is up to the user. Just like a "barda gerku" is
>> a "big type of dog" (presumably a big dog, "ko'a cu barda je gerku",
>> but maybe, for example, a type of dog that a big person would own
>> ("ko'a me lo gerku da'i po lo barda")) or a "gerku ponse" is a "dog
>> type of owner", presumably a dog owner ("ko'a cu ponse lo gerku") but
>> possibly describing my dog up above ("ko'a cu gerku je ponse"), or
>> possibly some other type of relationship ("ko'a ponse fi tu'a lo
>> gerku", he possess things the way a dog thinks about possession (i.e.
>> it's here, it's mine). So a mamta mamta is most probably "ko'a cu
>> mamta lo mamta", but it could also be many other things)). But once
>> you lujvoize it, it has only one meaning, the one the author defines,
>> which in this case is exactly that meaning. "x1 is the mother of x2,
>> who is the mother x3"
>>
>> Have I helped clear up anything?
>>
>> > -Alan
>> >
>> >
>> > On Thu, Feb 03, 2011 at 09:26:02AM -0500, Luke Bergen wrote:
>> >> that makes the most sense to me.. although my first thought when I
>> >> saw
>> >> {ponse ponse} was something like {ba'e ponse}... not that I know
>> >> what the
>> >> difference between {ponse} and {ba'e ponse} is but... that was my
>> >> first
>> >> thought. (though as I said, I do like gejyspa's interpretation
>> >> better).
>> >>
>> >> On Thu, Feb 3, 2011 at 8:25 AM, Michael Turniansky
>> >> <[1]mturniansky@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> An owner of an owner, I suppose...
>> >>
>> >> lo mi gerku cu ponse lo bolci .iseni'ibo mi ponse ponse
>> >> --gejyspa
>> >> On Wed, Feb 2, 2011 at 10:16 PM, Pierre Abbat
>> >> <[2]phma@phma.optus.nu>
>> >> wrote:
>> >> > On Wednesday 02 February 2011 14:44:22 .alyn.post. wrote:
>> >> >> .i fo ma fu lo nu valsi rapli cu tanru .i lu ponse ponse li'u
>> >> mupli
>> >> >>
>> >> >> What does word doubling mean in a tanru? For example: {ponse
>> >> >> ponse}
>> >> >
>> >> > "klakyklaku klakyklaku klaku" is used in The Restaurant of Many
>> >> Orders
>> >> > for "cried and cried and cried and cried and cried". "mamymamta"
>> >> (lujvo jenai
>> >> > tanru) means "maternal grandmother", and similarly "pafpatfu".
>> >> I'm not
>> >> sure
>> >> > what "ponse ponse" would mean.
>> >> >
>> >> > Pierre
>> >> > --
>> >> > I believe in Yellow when I'm in Sweden and in Black when I'm in
>> >> Wales.
>> >> >
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>> >
>> > --
>> > .i ko djuno fi le do sevzi
>> >
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