On Thu, Feb 3, 2011 at 10:08 AM, Luke Bergen <
lukeabergen@gmail.com> wrote:
> whoops, I guess my guess at the definition of it was wrong then. I assume
> that a gloss like "grandmother" would leave the grandchild as the x2. Seems
> like a more important place. But I guess that's arbitrary. There is no
> definition of mamymamta in jbovlaste. Maybe when I get home from work I'll
> add it (unless someone beats me to it... or I forget).
>
> On Thu, Feb 3, 2011 at 10:05 AM, Michael Turniansky <
mturniansky@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>>
>> On Thu, Feb 3, 2011 at 9:39 AM, .alyn.post.
>> <
alyn.post@lodockikumazvati.org> wrote:
>> > Will you help clarify some confusion I'm having, then?:
>> >
>> > lo mamta => mother
>> (a/some mothers)
>> > lo se mamta => child (not quite the right gloss, I don't think that
>> > matters in this case)
>> (child of a mother)
>> > mamta => mothering/motherness?
>> >
>>
>> No. "mamta" is not "mothering/motherness" That would be "ka
>> mamta". "mamta" is a relationship. Something m1 is the mother of
>> something else, m2.
>>
>> > lo ponse => owner
>> an owner/some owners
>> > lo se ponse => possesion
>> Yes, if you mean that as a noun -- a possession/some possessions.
>> > ponse => possessing/ownership?
>>
>> No. That would be nu ponse, or ka ponse, or za'i ponse, depending
>> on how you mean it. Again, it's a relationship. "p1 is the
>> possessor of p2 under law p3"
>>
>> >
>> > I don't quite get how one gets grandmother out of mamymamta, though
>> > I've confused the special significance that an x1 place has before.
>> >
>> > It seems in this case though that mamymamta either takes one meaning
>> > for the first mam (mothering) and another meaning for the second
>> > (mother), or that my gloss for mamta is wrong and it doesn't express
>> > motherness at all, but an actual mother.
>> >
>> > What am not understanding?
>> >
>>
>> Remember that a tanru, "x1 mamta mamta x2", means that x1 is a
>> mother type of mother of x2. The exact relationship between the
>> seltau and the tertau is up to the user. Just like a "barda gerku" is
>> a "big type of dog" (presumably a big dog, "ko'a cu barda je gerku",
>> but maybe, for example, a type of dog that a big person would own
>> ("ko'a me lo gerku da'i po lo barda")) or a "gerku ponse" is a "dog
>> type of owner", presumably a dog owner ("ko'a cu ponse lo gerku") but
>> possibly describing my dog up above ("ko'a cu gerku je ponse"), or
>> possibly some other type of relationship ("ko'a ponse fi tu'a lo
>> gerku", he possess things the way a dog thinks about possession (i.e.
>> it's here, it's mine). So a mamta mamta is most probably "ko'a cu
>> mamta lo mamta", but it could also be many other things)). But once
>> you lujvoize it, it has only one meaning, the one the author defines,
>> which in this case is exactly that meaning. "x1 is the mother of x2,
>> who is the mother x3"
>>
>> Have I helped clear up anything?
>>
>> > -Alan
>> >
>> >
>> > On Thu, Feb 03, 2011 at 09:26:02AM -0500, Luke Bergen wrote:
>> >> that makes the most sense to me.. although my first thought when I
>> >> saw
>> >> {ponse ponse} was something like {ba'e ponse}... not that I know
>> >> what the
>> >> difference between {ponse} and {ba'e ponse} is but... that was my
>> >> first
>> >> thought. (though as I said, I do like gejyspa's interpretation
>> >> better).
>> >>
>> >> On Thu, Feb 3, 2011 at 8:25 AM, Michael Turniansky
>> >> <[1]
mturniansky@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> An owner of an owner, I suppose...
>> >>
>> >> lo mi gerku cu ponse lo bolci .iseni'ibo mi ponse ponse
>> >> --gejyspa
>> >> On Wed, Feb 2, 2011 at 10:16 PM, Pierre Abbat
>> >> <[2]
phma@phma.optus.nu>
>> >> wrote:
>> >> > On Wednesday 02 February 2011 14:44:22 .alyn.post. wrote:
>> >> >> .i fo ma fu lo nu valsi rapli cu tanru .i lu ponse ponse li'u
>> >> mupli
>> >> >>
>> >> >> What does word doubling mean in a tanru? For example: {ponse
>> >> >> ponse}
>> >> >
>> >> > "klakyklaku klakyklaku klaku" is used in The Restaurant of Many
>> >> Orders
>> >> > for "cried and cried and cried and cried and cried". "mamymamta"
>> >> (lujvo jenai
>> >> > tanru) means "maternal grandmother", and similarly "pafpatfu".
>> >> I'm not
>> >> sure
>> >> > what "ponse ponse" would mean.
>> >> >
>> >> > Pierre
>> >> > --
>> >> > I believe in Yellow when I'm in Sweden and in Black when I'm in
>> >> Wales.
>> >> >
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