Re: [lojban-beginners] Question about {roda}

[Jorge Llambías <jjllambias@gmail.com>]

2011/2/22 Michael Turniansky <mturniansky@gmail.com>:
>
>   I don't understand what is so onerous about simply SAYING "ro le prenu" if
> that's what you mean.

We were comparing "ro da" vs "ro prenu", and my point was that the
restriction to prenu was in many contexts insignificant compared to
other contextual restrictions, so "ro prenu" doesn't solve the
putative problems with "ro da". English forces you to distinguish
"everybody" from "everything" in the same way that it forces you to
distinguish "he" and "she" from "it", Lojban doesn't.

As for "le", I don't really know how it really works. Suppose you want
to say "Everybody will love your dress at the party tomorrow", but I
have no idea who will be there at the party tomorrow. Can I use "le
prenu" to refer to the people who will be at the party, even though I
don't have any particular person in mind? Is "le" about particular
values you have in mind or about particular restrictions you have in
mind? I don't know. I don't think "le" is well defined, so I don't use
it.

> You are arbitrarily restricting it to mean exaclty
> whatever it is you think it should be retricted, and explicitly saying so.
> So instead of the listener having to ponder, "Oh, I wonder if the speaker is
> really intended to mean everything, or if he is intending to restrict it to
> some context, and if the latter, what context is it?"  He already KNOWS the
> answer to the first part (restricted), and simply has to figure out the
> second part. Whereas if you say "ro prenu" you mean exactly that -- "all
> people, everywhere"  No further pondering necessary.

"All people, everywhere" could be more restricted than plain "all
people", because it excludes people that are nowhere. It may also make
you wonder whether you also mean people of every time or whether you
mean to restrict it to the present, since you went to the trouble of
specifying where but not when. I don't think "ro prenu" makes any
reference to places, so it can't mean exactly "all people,
everywhere".

mu'o mi'e xorxes

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