Re: [lojban-beginners] Re: Best Word for Humanoid?

["H. Felton" <fagricipni@gmail.com>]

On 9/9/10, A J <seitec@mail.ru> wrote:
> about humanoid
>
> REMSMI is right in my opinion, but it still doesn't have some sciencefiction
> hint.
> in russian there is a phrase,that is almost equal for humanoids - "bratya po
> razumu" (intellect brothers) which points that intellect is main feature of
> "remna" and "remsmi".
> maybe lojban word "humanoid" should reflect smthng for human intelligence?

Not exactly.  I have always taken "prenu" to include the concept
that the English neologism "sophont"[1] was invented to describe.
"prenu" could also be taken to inculde in addition what one might
describe as "pseudo-sophont" describing the quality of a advanced
ELIZA[2] program perhaps; from the part of the definition: "x1
displays personality/a persona", which implies to me that "prenu"
does not necessarily imply a "full personality".

I have always taken "remna" to mean Homo sapiens; analogous to, for
example, "gerku" and "mlatu":
gerku: x1 is a dog/canine/[bitch] of species/breed x2
mlatu: x1 is a cat/[puss/pussy/kitten] [feline animal] of
    species/breed x2; (adjective:) x1 is feline
thus;
remna: x1 is a human/human being/man (non-specific gender-free
    sense); (adjective:) x1 is human

"remna" does not include an x2; so from that I take it that the
species is part of the definition of the word.  Perhaps it was a
mistake to leave the x2 off of that definition; after all, Homo
sapiens was preceded by Neanderthal, of which even scientists can
not decide whether they were Homo sapiens -- "Neanderthals are
either classified as a subspecies (or race) of humans
(Homo sapiens neanderthalensis) or as a separate species
(Homo neanderthalensis)"[From
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neanderthal].  If even the scientists
disagree on what was Homo sapiens, then there is even less
authoritative opinion on what is "human".

So, I think that "remna" should remain a biological classification.
As for "remsmi", I still think in anatomical terms or physical
morphological terms; again this comes from the direction of science
fiction that I have read, *and* descriptions of human evolution.

If the way you have described the usage of "bratya po razumu"
(intellect brothers) is correct; I would have no qualms about
translating it as "prenu".

Should "nanmu" and "ninmu" have been defined as male and female
"prenu"(persons) rather than "humanoids"?  That one, I'm not sure
about; I could see it going either way.

However, the real "practical" answer behind my question is that I
am one of those gender-neutral language freaks.
( http://aetherlumina.com/gnp/ ).  In actual practice, I imagine
that "prenu" and "remna" will be sufficient for almost all cases
that I will ever encounter in reality; while there are a few extant
species (certainly within the Hominidae family) where in poor
conditions; eg, dim lighting, or if some of their members start
wearing clothes; that I might find hard to tell immediately if what
I saw was a member of Homo sapiens; there are very few places left
on Earth where I might be able to have a *reasonable* doubt about
the humanoid's membership in Homo sapiens.


[1]http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/sophont
[2]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ELIZA

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