Re: [lojban-beginners] Re: Best Word for Humanoid?

["H. Felton" <fagricipni@gmail.com>]

On 9/9/10, Pierre Abbat <phma@phma.optus.nu> wrote:
> On Wednesday 08 September 2010 09:48:01 H. Felton wrote:
>> x1 of the tanru selbri has to fit in x1 of the tertau: x1 is
>> human -- now I see how that doesn't work.
>
> There is at least one exception: "xajyfi'e". According to recent genetic
> tests, it is more closely related to the hippopotamus than to the pig, but
> it
> is a lot more like a pig than it is like a fish!

I said *"tanru selbri"* not "lujvo selbri"; even the proposed lujvo
for humanoid, "remsmi", does not have the place structure of
"simsa"; it is the *tanru* "remna simsa" that must have the place
structure of "simsa".  I also remember reading that lujvo may not
have all the rafsi of the words in the original expression in
tanru; in particular, the rafsi for cmavo, such as "ka", may be
omitted to make a shorter lujvo.  I don't think then that there is
any *rule* that requires the x1 of the *lujvo* to be able to be
placed in the x1 of the tanru that it is derived from.

It's perhaps just a personal bias of mine that I would prefer it to
do so.  I, also, have a personal bias about coining neologisms from
English words that contain Greek and/or Latin roots.  I try to
replace a changed root with a root derived from the same language;
eg, I have seen "tetrachromat" in common use by experts on the
biological basis of vision, so when I wanted to coin a word for a
hypothetical "5-chromat", I used "pentachromat", not "quinchromat";
because like the prefix "tetra", the prefix "penta" is derived from
Greek.  Likewise a "parhelic arc" becomes a "parselenic arc", not a
"parlunic arc".  (Incidentally, I don't have the objection that
some people have to making words from a combination of Greek and
Latin roots; eg, "automobile" from the Greek-derived "auto" and the
Latin-derived "mobile"; indeed, I don't even have an objection to
not following the pattern I describe; suppose that "parlunic arc"
*were to be* the word used in almost all the literature on the
subject, then I would follow the already established common
convention; it is in *my own* synthesis of neologisms from words
that have Latin and/or Greek roots that I follow the rule of
preferring to replace a root by one derived from the same
language.)

In a similar fashion, I find that logic suggests that it is
desirable for the x1 place of the lujvo to be something that could
fit in to the x1 place of the expanded tanru -- including the words
for which the rafsi were dropped to make a smaller lujvo; but I
also don't think that it is an absolute necessity; there are cases
where other considerations are more important in defining the
meaning of a lujvo.

On 9/10/10, Pierre Abbat <phma@phma.optus.nu> wrote:
> The word "xajyfi'e" is used for "porpoise" in Alice,
> apparently
> based on its etymology (Old French "pourpois" from Vulgar
> Latin "porcopiscis").

First, I think that it is mal-something to use the etymology of
the word in another language as the sole justification for the
choice of rafsi to build the lujvo from.

On 9/9/10, Pierre Abbat <phma@phma.optus.nu> wrote:
> There is at least one exception: "xajyfi'e". According to recent genetic
> tests, it is more closely related to the hippopotamus than to the pig, but
> it
> is a lot more like a pig than it is like a fish!

However, if one accepts the derivation from "xarju", I'd have to
say that *popularly* that a porpoise is indeed regarded as more
like a fish than pig, but one has to remember that the average
member of the public is *at best* barely conscious of the fact that
porpoises (and similar animals, like dolphins) are air-breathers --
never mind any more esoteric details.

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