Re: [lojban-beginners] oh my god, please make it stop, it hurts so much! (was: Re: Questions on the sounds chosen for Lojban)

[Michael Turniansky <mturniansky@gmail.com>]

On Mon, Jan 24, 2011 at 2:24 PM, Luke Bergen <lukeabergen@gmail.com> wrote:
> haha, all this lobdau for nothing.  I don't hear any difference in how you
> say them.  But I definitely do hear a difference when I replied to your
> cynch with a recording of "writer rider".  Can you hear the difference?

  Oh, I definitely hear the difference.

>  Which one sounds funny?

  Neither.

> Now I'm more curious as to where I picked this up.  I was raised in eastern
> Pa (which is pretty close to NJ, so probably didn't get it there).  I then
> went to college for 4 years in western ny (Buffalo region) (but my wife
> whose hometown was in western ny doesn't say them differently).  I then
> moved out to the boston area and have been here for about 3 years.  I'll
> have to ask some of my family who haven't moved around.
> Where in the hell did I pick this up?

  I doubt you picked it up in college.  Accents are pretty much "set"
by then) (FWIW, I was 11 years in Massachusetts, and for the last 19
in Maryland.  My wife still reacts to the way I say "modern" (she's
from the Bronx), but I don't think there's anything weird about it.
(My children's Baltimore long "o" pronunciations drives us both nuts,
though).

             --gejyspa
> On Mon, Jan 24, 2011 at 2:10 PM, Michael Turniansky <mturniansky@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>>
>>  I believe I possibly do.  Listen to  my cinchcast for them
>> http://www.cinchcast.com/gejyspa/160251  . I was born and bred in
>> central New Jersey.
>>
>>           --gejyspa
>>
>> On Mon, Jan 24, 2011 at 1:07 PM, Luke Bergen <lukeabergen@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>> > Odd, I grew up (and presumably acquired by accent) from
>> > eastern Pennsylvania.  Not all THAT close to Canada.  I only do the "ai"
>> > part of the raising so my "about the house" is not subject to this
>> > raising
>> > effect.
>> > Now I'm kind of curious about what parts of the country see this affect.
>> > If anybody is willing to help tickle my curiosity, please reply with
>> > your
>> > general location and if you say "rider" and "writer" identically.
>> >
>> > On Mon, Jan 24, 2011 at 12:35 PM, Oren <get.oren@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> Aha. Wikipedia speaks, I am in fact just a very sheltered freak:
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_American_English_regional_phonology#Canadian_raising
>> >> "the General American pronunciations of rider and writer are identical
>> >> ([ɹaɪɾɚ]), those American English speakers whose dialects include
>> >> either the
>> >> full or restricted Canadian raising will pronounce them
>> >> as [ɹaɪɾɚ] and [ɹəɪɾɚ], respectively. Canadian raising is quite strong
>> >> in
>> >> most of Ontario and the Maritimes as well as in the Prairies. It is
>> >> receding
>> >> in British Columbia, and many of these speakers do not
>> >> raise /aɪ/ before
>> >> voiceless consonants."
>> >>
>> >> Apparently Syracuse, New York qualifies as sufficiently Canadian.
>> >> On Mon, Jan 24, 2011 at 12:11, MorphemeAddict <lytlesw@gmail.com>
>> >> wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>> My Midwest USA accent has no difference TTBOMK between the vowels of
>> >>> "bold" and "so". Nor are they different in "pie" and "pipe", as a
>> >>> later post
>> >>> asserts.
>> >>>
>> >>> stevo
>> >>>
>> >>> On Sat, Jan 22, 2011 at 1:53 PM, Luke Bergen <lukeabergen@gmail.com>
>> >>> wrote:
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Why exactly is this bad, timos?  The cll does it because how else can
>> >>>> we
>> >>>> explain to nintadni that "o" says english "bold" not "so"?
>> >>>>
>> >>>> I find that now that I have a pretty good grasp of lojban
>> >>>> pronounciation, I have a new tool to help me better communicate
>> >>>> differences
>> >>>> of accent.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Ideally I should just get off my lazy arse and learn IPA though :(
>> >>>>
>> >>>> i.e.  lojban vowels don't help me to describe the difference in
>> >>>> pronounciation of "b[o]ston".
>> >>>>
>> >>>> But the difference between english "pie" and "pipe" is most certainly
>> >>>> distinguishable using lojban vowels (the difference being "pai" vs
>> >>>> and
>> >>>> "pyip").  Just try saying "pie" in english followed quickly by the
>> >>>> "p" sound
>> >>>> and you will hear that it sounds funny and distinctly not like "pipe"
>> >>>>
>> >>>> On Jan 22, 2011 1:29 PM, "Timo Paulssen"
>> >>>> <timonator@perpetuum-immobile.de> wrote:
>> >>>>
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>> >>
>> >>
>> >> --
>> >> Oren Robinson
>> >> (315) 569-2888
>> >> 102 Morrison Ave
>> >> Somerville, MA 02144
>> >>
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