[lojban-beginners] Re: personal pronouns

[Matt Arnold <mattarn@123.net>]

xorxes,
   I see! {.ua} Thank you! {ki'e} Your examples are enlightening. {ledo mupli cu rinka lo nu jimpe}
   I had been unfamiliar with the use of the first letter to substitute for a word, but yesterday I read your Tower of Babel translation on the Langmaker website and noticed the technique was prominent and very useful.
   Also, I am aware that the use of gendered pronouns to speak of that which would otherwise be referred to as "it" is an idiom from natural languages, but when translating poetry that attempts to personalize and anthropomorphize the earth and sun, is there a way to preserve this feeling without committing malglico? {ninmu}, "woman", is dispreferred in metaphor as sexist. Can I say {fetsi}, "female"?
-Matt

lojban-beginners@chain.digitalkingdom.org wrote:
>
>--- Matt Arnold wrote:
>> >> le terdi cu sipna ni'a leko'a blabi kicne 
>> 
>> I was trying to say "The earth sleeps beneath his/her/its white cushion." In
>> a previous e-mail I wrote: "doesn't [ko'a] have to be assigned a referent
>> with {goi}? Is that required?" and you replied: "Define 'required'.  If
>> you're talking to a computer, yes, but most humans can deal with 'OK, the
>> person we're talking about is now ko'a, despite this never really having been
>> defined'." 
>
>That probably needs more qualification. I don't really see
>{ko'a} used that way much, mainly because there are usually more
>precise alternatives available.
>
>> How did I do this wrong in the above sentence?
>
>Some alternatives would be:
>
> le terdi cu sipna ni'a le vo'a blabi kicne
>
> le terdi cu sipna ni'a le ri blabi kicne
>
> le terdi cu sipna ni'a le ty blabi kicne
>
>So it's unlikely that {ko'a} would be taken to be 
>{le terdi}. 
> 
>> >> .i gacri le solri gi'e na ko'e rinka nu leko'a cikna
>> >Cover for the sun and massive syntax error.
>> 
>> In short, how do I use pronouns in Lojban to translate: 
>> "The earth sleeps beneath her white comforter. The sun is covered and will
>> not wake her."
>
>For example:
>
>   le terdi cu sipna ni'a le vo'a blabi kicne i le solri 
>   cu se gacri gi'e na gasnu lo nu ty cikna
>
>mu'o mi'e xorxes

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