[lojban-beginners] Re: {nu penmi} versus {le nunpenmi}

[Matt Arnold <mattarn@123.net>]

OK, what about {se}, {te}, {ve}, and {xe}? Since {jbena}'s place structure is "x1 is born to x2 at time x3 and place x4", can a lujvo be coined as {teljbena} to mean "birthday" and {veljbana} to mean "birthplace"?
- epkat

lojban-beginners@chain.digitalkingdom.org wrote:
>On Wed, Mar 02, 2005 at 03:31:26PM -0500, Matt Arnold wrote:
>> Robin,
>>
>> What are the differences in usage and purpose between saying
>> "meeting" as {le nu penmi}, and "meeting" as {le nunpenmi}? 
>
>Well, technically "nunpenmi", being a lujvo, can mean whatever the
>creator wants it to mean and have a really bizarre place structure
>and so on.
>
>In practice, however, NU + selbri == nunselbri is used to drop a
>level of nesting.  Example:
>
>mi klama lo nu penmi lo nu gunka
>
>"I go to the meeting from the working".  This is actually wrong,
>however, because "lo nu" introduces a level of nesting which must be
>closed by kei or vau:
>
>mi klama lo nu penmi kei lo nu gunka
>
>Or you can lose a bunch of syllables by:
>
>mi klama lo nunpenmi lo nu gunka
>
>For reasons that I'm not clear on, the construction like this that
>has been used the most often IME is nunpenmi.  Odd, but there you
>are.
>
>> The same question applies not only to abstractors but to
>> applications of {se}, {te}, {ve} etc. which I've seen incorporated
>> into compound words as well. 
>
>There are different reasons to do that.  Generally, SE + brivla ==
>selbrivla is only used seriously when the x2 place has an obvious
>natlang keyword and you want to stick it in a dictionary; so
>"selkla" is useful because English (at least; I assume there are
>many others) has a word for "destination", so often English speakers
>want a single word for same.
>
>In more complicated lujvo, its effects are somewhat different, but
>that gets pretty intense.  I can expand on it if you want.
>
>> The first time I came across it a few years ago I was surprised
>> because I thought only rafsi were used in compound words. 
>
>They are; some cmavo have rafsi.  97 of them, in fact.
>
>-Robin
>
>-- 
>http://www.digitalkingdom.org/~rlpowell/ *** http://www.lojban.org/
>Reason #237 To Learn Lojban: "Homonyms: Their Grate!"
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