[lojban-beginners] Re: Please review # 001

["Turniansky, Michael" <MICHAEL.A.TURNIANSKY@saic.com>]

 Yes, "ca" is a slippery one, and I, too, used to use "ti'u" when I was
first starting out, since it seemed from the short descriptionCLL to
have the meaning wanted.  What "ca" does is it can act as a modal (As
can other tenses), meaning "during event...." or "at the same time
as..." so "ca le cerni"  or "ce lo cerni" (I would personally argue
either one was correct, and would suggest that your original "le" was
actually the preferred one here, since you were referring to a
particular morning (presumably this one)") would mean "during the
morning" (=in the morning).

 ki'u, like all modals, must be followed by only a single sumti, not a
complete bridi like "mi sutra..., etc.".  So you have to make that into
a single sumti if you want to keep it in the same sentence as the rest
of it.  "le/lo nu" acts a general "convert bridi into sumti" operator.
The other option, is start a whole new sentence, starting it with ".i
ki'u bo", where the bo essentially means "tie this sentence in with the
previous sentence, with the ki'u covereing the whole whint"

   As to attitudinals, while you certainly can use the "bilga le/lo nu"
construction, it just make the sentence structure less complicated.
Personal stylistic preference (I tend to use the gismus myself in most
cases).

   Gratitude -- ki'e ("thank you") (from "ckire")  (strictly speking, a
"vocative", not an "attitudinal")

                --gejyspa




-----Original Message-----
From: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org
[mailto:lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org] On Behalf Of ANDREW
PIEKARSKI
Sent: Thursday, April 19, 2007 9:31 AM
To: lojban-beginners@lojban.org
Subject: [lojban-beginners] Re: Please review # 001

Thanks, Pierre.

Please help me understand some of your suggestions.  Generally, I would
like to know when I made grammatical errors, and when the style was
awkward though grammatical.

1) My use of {ti'u}.  Was this, in fact ungrammatical?  {le cerni}
obviously should have been {lo cerni} but {ca} is always a problem for
me.  Sometimes it signifies the present tense, and sometimes "during" -
so I avoided it.  Why then {ca}?

2) My use of {ki'u}.  So are you saying that instead of {ki'u mi bilga
lenu klama}  I should have written
    either
    ...iki'ubo mi bilga lenu klama... 
    or
    ...ki'u lonu mi bilga lenu klama... 
    Why either?

3) My use of {bilga}.  Are you saying that it is usually or always
better to use attitudinals like {.ei} rather than their gismu
equivalents?

4)  In any case, I was looking also for an attitudinal that expresses
the emotion of gratitiude - but I couldn't find one.  Is there one?

mu'o mi'e .andrus.


----- Original Message ----
From: Pierre Abbat <phma@phma.optus.nu>
To: lojban-beginners@lojban.org
Sent: Thursday, April 19, 2007 5:08:14 AM
Subject: [lojban-beginners] Re: Please review # 001


On Wednesday 18 April 2007 23:51, ANDREW PIEKARSKI wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> Please review my translation and make appropriate suggestions.  Apart
from
> the grammar, are there better ways of saying this?:
>
> "In the morning, I drink coffee quickly as I have to go to my kid's
school
> in order to meet his teacher."
>
> .i ti'u le cerni mi cu sutra pinxe lo ckafi ki'u mi bilga lenu klama
le
> ckule pe le mi panzi tezu'e lenu penmi le ri ctuca

{ti'u} is normally used with a number, such as {ti'u li so [pe lo
cerni]}; I'd 
say {ca lo cerni}.

{cu} is not necessary after {mi}, but is grammatical.

{ki'u} has to be either {iki'ubo} or {ki'u lo nu}.

Instead of {mi bilga lenu klama}, I'd say {ei mi klama}.

Pierre