Re: [lojban] {X1 selbri X2} = {X2 se selbri X1}?

[GREGORY DYKE <gregory.dyke@epfl.ch>]

> 
> 
> Hello!
> 
> I have new question. Is it true that {X1 selbri X2} = {X2 se selbri
> X1}? For example is {la tam. tavla la meris.} equivalent to {la meris.
> se tavla la tam.} ?

Equivalent. Possibly, pragmatically, there is a difference. "It is tom who talks to mary" vs "It is Mary who listens to tom".
> 
> The reason of my doubt is following. I found that {la tam. tavla la
> meris.} should be translated as "Tom talks to Mary", and {la 
> meris. se
> tavla la tam.} should be translated as "Mary listens to Tom." But it
> seams to me that these two English translations have different
> meaning. Really, if Tom talk to Mary it does not necessarily mean that
> Mary listen to Tom. Does it mens that corresponding initial lojban
> sentences also have different meaning, or may be English translations
> just not fully represent initial meaning of lojban sentences?

tavla describes a relationship between a talker, an audience, a subject and a language. So the English sentences do not really represent the meaning. It is debatable whether Mary actually has to be "listening" in the sense of both "hearing" and "understanding/trying to understand" for this relationship to exist.

Greg