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Re: [lojban] {X1 selbri X2} = {X2 se selbri X1}?
- To: lojban-list@lojban.org
- Subject: Re: [lojban] {X1 selbri X2} = {X2 se selbri X1}?
- From: Jorge Llambías <jjllambias@gmail.com>
- Date: Wed, 6 Apr 2005 09:47:41 -0300
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On Apr 6, 2005 8:31 AM, opi_lauma <opi_lauma@yahoo.com> wrote:
> I have new question. Is it true that {X1 selbri X2} = {X2 se selbri
> X1}?
As long as X1 and X2 don't include any operators with scope
(such as quantifiers, logical connectives, negation) then yes.
If there is scope involved, their order matters.
>For example is {la tam. tavla la meris.} equivalent to {la meris.
> se tavla la tam.} ?
Yes.
> The reason of my doubt is following. I found that {la tam. tavla la
> meris.} should be translated as "Tom talks to Mary", and {la meris. se
> tavla la tam.} should be translated as "Mary listens to Tom."
Maybe "could" rather than "should". "Listen" could also be
{tirna} or {jundi}.
But it
> seams to me that these two English translations have different
> meaning. Really, if Tom talk to Mary it does not necessarily mean that
> Mary listen to Tom. Does it mens that corresponding initial lojban
> sentences also have different meaning, or may be English translations
> just not fully represent initial meaning of lojban sentences?
The latter. Translations are always a compromise. Probably
"is talked to by" would in general be a more exact translation
than "listens" for {se tavla}.
mu'o mi'e xorxes