On 6/30/07, Jon Top Hat Jones <eyeonus@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 6/29/07, Pierre Abbat <phma@phma.optus.nu> wrote:
> > On Friday 29 June 2007 22:17, Nathaniel Krause wrote:
> > > Why not just cmevla, like we do for the hours?
> >
> > Huh?? The hours are numbers. You say {ti'u} to indicate that it's a time.
You could say the same about {de'i} and months, although months are
more like minutes than like hours, as they go in the middle.
{de'i li pi'e xa pi'e} would be "In June" without specifying day or year.
> > The names of the months have a place structure "x1 is the January/etc. of
> year
> > x2", so they have to be brivla. So you can say {jbena fi le pamumoi be
> > le .ianvari be le 2001moi}.
You could also say {jbena fi le 15moi be le 1moi be le 2001moi}.
But I agree that having a break from numbers can be nice.
> I think I prefer using number form for month, so January would be {pavma'i}
> = "x1 is the first month of the year x2", Febuary = {relma'i}, March =
> {cibma'i}, etc.
One issue with those is that the most direct interpretaion of them
gives "month", "bimester", "trimester", ..., "semester", because
of the place structure of {masti}.
That may be true, but the place structure of {pavma'i} and related wouldn't be based off of {pa masti}, but of {pamoi masti}, the {moi} being left out for the sake of shortness.
Also, my personal preference for things like trimester and such would be to not use a lujvo, and instead use either {ci lo masti} or {lo ci masti}, whichever of "3 of a month-span" or "a 3 month-span" is better.
On a semi-related note, which of those is equivalent to {ci masti}?
> Also, are there suggested/official lujvo/gismu for the days of the month? If
> not, I propose the following: Since {pavdei} is "Monday" and etc., use
> {pavdje}, etc. or possibly {pavmoidei}/{pavmoidje} (though I don't much
> like the length of the latter two...) for the days of the month, with the
> meaning "x1 is the Nth day of the month x2 of the year x3"
The official rules are that choice of rafsi should not affect the meaning of
a lujvo, so at least in principle {pavdei}, {pavdje} and {pavdjedi} should
all have the same meaning.
Fortunately, "should not" and "can not" aren't the same. Then again, if roma'a decide to go with the terms for days as you suggest below, that rule presents no problem.
The same problem of months applies in the case of days, the most
direct interpretation of {zeldei}, based on place structure, is "week".
There are no common words in English for "two-day period",
"three-day period" and so on, but that's what place structure
suggests.
Granted, but again, {pamoi djedi}, not {pa djedi}, as with {pavma'i}.
Another issue with them might be the confusion that such names
could cause to people such as Portuguese speakers whose native
language calls "Monday" the second day, and so on. I don't know
how bad that problem would be for them.
That's a problem with numbers for days of the week, certainly, but not for days of the month, I wouldn't think.
I actually like the Japanese and Korean system:
soldei Sun's day
lurdei Moon's day
fagdei day of the planet of fire (Mars)
jaurdei day of the planet of water (Mercury)
mudydei day of the planet of wood (Jupiter)
jimdei day of the planet of metal (Venus)
derdei day of the planet of earth (Saturn)
(Note that Saturday is associated with Saturn, the planet of earth,
not with planet Earth.)
mu'o mi'e xorxes
I don't remember all of them, so I'll have to look it up, but the English names for days are derived from the following:
Sunday = Sun Day
Monday = Moon Day
Tuesday = Tiu's Day (Tiu being a translation of Mars, not sure of language, most likely Norse)
Wednesday = Woden's Day (Woden = Mercury, again Norse? (Oden?))
Thursday = Thor's Day (Definite Norse, translation of Jove/Jupiter)
Friday = Frigg/Freyja's Day (Germanic goddess of beauty, equivalent to Venus)
Saturday = Saturn's Day
According to
reference.com, the Romance languages use the same system as the Japanese, and the Latin-derived naming is nearly universal- Russian and Portuguese are mentioned as using numbering- 5th-day in Russian and 6th-day in Port., and Hindi uses the Sanskrit name for the planet Venus for Friday at least, probably the others as well.
Based on Historical Inertia, I have now changed my vote for days of week to be Latin derivations and not number-derived. Of course, this also solves the problem of which day is 1st-day. Well, more circumvent than solve, but whatever.