[lojban] Re: Chinese, English and Spanish etymology of Lojban (was: Re: gismu etymology)

[mls1@rice.edu]

Quoting mublin <mublin@dealloc.org>:

> [Repost in ASCII]
>
 [snip]

> However, my use of the terms seems to be in accordance with the
> definition given on Wikipedia [2]:
>
> > Falling (or descending) diphthongs start with a vowel of higher
> > prominence (higher pitch or louder) and end in a vowel with less
> > prominence, like /aI_^/ in "eye", while rising (or ascending)
> > diphthongs begin with a less prominent vowel and end with a more
> > prominent vowel, like /I_^a/ in "yard".
>
> You also wrote:
>
> > All the falling diphthongs *end* with high vowels, and all the
> > rising diphthongs listed *begin* with a high vowel. This seems
> > backwards to me [snip]
>
> Now I am confused. I thought ``ai, ei, oi, au'' (falling diphthongs in
> my terms) start with a vowel of higher prominence and end on a
> semivowel; whereas in the ``ia'' and ``ua'' series it is the other way
> round.


>
> [1] http://lojban.org/publications/level0/brochure/phonol.html
> [2] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diphthong
>
> --
> mu'o mi'e mublin.
>


What I was referring to as "high" and "low" vowels is not the same as the
difference between a vowel and a semivowel (or glide). What I was referring to
refers instead to the position of the tongue in the mouth when pronouncing the
vowel. The vowels i and u are thus, in this system "high" vowels (which others
here are calling "close" vowels because the mouth is more closed) and a is a
"low" vowel (often also called an "open" vowel). From what I can tell, though,
the classification of diphthongs described in the wikipedia quote you gave is
instead based on sonority. Vowels are more sonorous than glides (semivowels)
which are more sonorous than liquids (r and l) which are more sonorous than
nasals (m and n) which are more sonorous than fricatives (s z f v) which are
more sonorous than stops (p t k b d g). (I did not include all consonants of
each category.) So if the "rising" and "falling" in a diphthong is referring to
the sonority, you would get the classifications in the wikipedia quote you
gave. But if it is referring to the position of the tongue in pronouncing each
sound, you would get the reverse.

mu'omi'e skaryzgik.


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