[lojban] Re: a new kind of fundamentalism

[Robin Turner <lojban-out@lojban.org>]

Jordan DeLong wrote:
> On Mon, Oct 07, 2002 at 11:32:01AM -0400, pycyn@aol.com wrote:
>
> > In a message dated 10/6/2002 7:07:18 PM Central Daylight Time, 
> > lojban-out@lojban.org writes, quoting pc quoting him:
> > <<
> >
> > > > This is the oldest screw-up in Lojban (and Loglan before it).  People who 
> > > > can't tell UI from "I am ... that..." bridi are suffering from the 
> > > original 
> > >
> > > > malglico and clearly have not yet earned the right to play with the 
> > > language. 
> > >
> > > > They just need to be gently asked which they really mean (Do you care 
> > > how I 
> > >
> > > > feel or do you care that ...?) and reminded how to say the one they want. 
> > >
> > >
> > > > This is a clear case of the parse (often) not giving the intended 
> > > meaning.  
> > >
> > > > And all the bad usage in the world will not change that.
> > > Ok, I read the above paragraph about 4 times, and I can't make heads
> > > or tails of it.  Clearly it is intended to be insulting, but you
> > > wrote it so poorly I have no idea what you're even complaining
> > > about, which just makes it look asinine.  However, I'll give you
> > > the benefit of the doubt and assume you actually *are* talking about
> > > *something*, however incoherently.
> > >
> > > Would you like to try again?
> [zu'o kasta'a]
>
> > The rest is just the standard policy for dealing with the error.  Ascertain 
> > that it was an error, that the user really meant to say the other thing, and 
> > then gently (two-by- fours are OK after a few recurrences, but dynamite is 
> > never appropriate) remind the misuser of the distinction and how to make it.
>
> Ok; I agree that there is a gramatical difference, but not that
> there is a real semantic difference (except perhaps in which part
> of the claim is more important (the fact you are happy, or whatever
> the other claim is))...

I think it's more than a grammatical difference (in the narrow sense of 
the word). If I say "mi gleki", I am making a proposition; i.e. a 
statement about the world which has a truth value, just as it would if I 
were to say "le mi speni cu gleki".  If I say ".ui" I am expressing a 
feeling of happiness; it has no more truth value than smiling (hence 
that interminable thread about ironic attitudinals some time back).

robin.tr

--
"We do not imprison ourselves with laws, or impoverish ourselves with 
money" - Iain Banks

Robin Turner
IDMYO
Bilkent Universitesi
Ankara 06533
Turkey

www.bilkent.edu.tr/~robin