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Re: [lojban] Attitudinals again (was: Sapir-Whorf Hypothesis
At 11:45 PM 06/13/2001 -0400, you wrote:
On Thu, 14 Jun 2001, Jorge Llambias wrote:
> la xod cusku di'e
> > Certainly it is bad to assume that {.ui ko'a klama} means the same as
> > > {mi gleki lenu ko'a klama}.
> >
> >Everybody's agreeing on this, but nobody has explained why to my
> >satisfaction.
>
> The first one asserts that ko'a goes. The second one asserts that
> you are happy about ko'a going. Those are two different assertions.
ko'a goes, and that makes me happy
Not the only interpretation, though the most likely given no pragmatic
information. (It could also mean "ko'a goes, and I disapprove but I'm
happy anyway (maybe because I know that ko'a wants to go)".
I am happy because ko'a goes
> In the first one you are displaying your feeling of happiness
> about ko'a going. In the second one you are not necessarily
> displaying any feeling at all.
You displayed it through the use of "gleki".
No. He CLAIMED it - he might have done so in a monotone, and he might have
falsely claimed it. Assertions can be true or false. Emotional displays
simply ARE.
> They are clearly different assertions. I'm not sure why this is
> such a big deal though. As far as I can tell, both are appropriate
> in approximately the same circumstances. That does not mean
> they have the same meaning.
A difference is only a difference if it makes a difference. I see there is
a difference in the character string. Is there a difference in meaning?
There is a difference in pragmatics. If someone claims to be happy, and
does not display happiness, I react with doubt.
There is also a difference in truth-functionality that can affect things in
a context. For example, if the following sentence started with .ijanai,
all of a sudden there is no assertion at all, and the conditional depends
on whether I am happy rather than whether ko'a is going.
lojbab
--
lojbab lojbab@lojban.org
Bob LeChevalier, President, The Logical Language Group, Inc.
2904 Beau Lane, Fairfax VA 22031-1303 USA 703-385-0273
Artificial language Loglan/Lojban: http://www.lojban.org