[lojban] Re: Gender neutrality?

[Robin Lee Powell <rlpowell@digitalkingdom.org>]

Umm.  I don't think I even know what it means.  If I say "Did you
see that woman?", I mean "Did you see that human with female
secondary sexual characteristics?"; I'm probably only bothering to
say "woman" because I found them attractive.  I have no idea what
"replacing words meaning biological sex with words for gender
identities" would entail in that conversation, let alone why I would
want to do that.

FWIW, as others have said nanmu/ninmu can mean looks like an X,
thinks like an X, acts like an X, considers themselves an X, is
considered by others an X, etc, etc; it's up to context to make the
distinction.

I'm not at all clear on which case you think should be deprecated.

-Robin

On Mon, Apr 20, 2009 at 04:34:40PM -0400, Danny Piccirillo wrote:
> Yes, but in conversation people often like to say, "Did you see
> that girl?" instead of "Did you see that person?". Things like
> that. My request is that lujvo for gender identities should
> replace words meaning biological sex in casual conversation since
> it will come up. Can that happen? Does anybody else see this as
> something that should happen?
> 
> On Mon, Apr 20, 2009 at 16:19, Robin Lee Powell <rlpowell@digitalkingdom.org
> > wrote:
> 
> > It hasn't come up.  Unless I need to talk about whether someone
> > actually has a penis or vagina, I use {remna}.  Or, you know, their
> > name.  :)  If it comes up in conversation for you, I suggest you
> > invent some lujvo.
> >
> > -Robin
> >
> > On Mon, Apr 20, 2009 at 04:12:16PM -0400, Danny Piccirillo wrote:
> > > No, i mean words that instead of meaning that someone is a boy, it
> > > means that they are mentally a boy. Everyone is used to using
> > > words that describe what people are biologically, but we should be
> > > talking about gender identity unless we really do want to talk
> > > specifically about their biological sex. So, the terms that mean
> > > identify as male, female, genderqueer, etc, should always be
> > > preferred when talking about humans (or even bots/androids that
> > > are supposed to have a gender since they don't have a biological
> > > sex).
> > >
> > > On Mon, Apr 20, 2009 at 10:00, Minimiscience <minimiscience@gmail.com
> > >wrote:
> > >
> > > > de'i li 20 pi'e 04 pi'e 2009 la'o fy. Danny Piccirillo .fy. cusku zoi
> > > > skamyxatra.
> > > > > If there are terms for boy, man, girl, and woman, there are surely
> > terms
> > > > for
> > > > > one who identifies as masculine or feminine, or androgynous,
> > genderqueer,
> > > > etc
> > > > > and those are the terms i think should be preferred in common
> > > > conversation
> > > > > when talking about someone who has a gender identity (all humans).
> > > > .skamyxatra
> > > >
> > > > If you mean words that are suitable for individuals regardless of their
> > > > gender
> > > > identities, yes, there are words for those.  "Human" is "{remna}," and
> > > > "person"
> > > > (not necessarily human) is "{prenu}."  "Child" is "{verba},"
> > "offspring" is
> > > > "{panzi}," "parent" is "{rirni}," "sibling" is "{tunba}," "uncle/aunt"
> > is
> > > > "{famti}," et cetera.
> > > >
> > > > mu'omi'e .kamymecraijun.
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > le munje vi smaji
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to
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> > > >
> > > >
> >
> > --
> > They say:  "The first AIs will be built by the military as weapons."
> > And I'm thinking:  "Does it even occur to you to try for something
> > other than the default outcome?" -- http://shorl.com/tydruhedufogre
> > http://www.digitalkingdom.org/~rlpowell/ *** http://www.lojban.org/
> >
> >
> > To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to lojban-list-request@lojban.org
> > with the subject unsubscribe, or go to http://www.lojban.org/lsg2/, or if
> > you're really stuck, send mail to secretary@lojban.org for help.
> >
> >

-- 
They say:  "The first AIs will be built by the military as weapons."
And I'm thinking:  "Does it even occur to you to try for something
other than the default outcome?" -- http://shorl.com/tydruhedufogre
http://www.digitalkingdom.org/~rlpowell/ *** http://www.lojban.org/


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