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[lojban] Re: Philosophical differences.
It does not make sense to have a word which specifically refers to the
external female genitalia when we have "plibu".
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vlagi refers to a specific part of the female genitalia.
fetplibu and nakplibu are perfectly adequate, in my opinion,
Then use them. No one is stopping you.
You want to eliminate a gismu that has been around for a couple of
decades (though it probably hasn't see a lot of use). The only
plausible justification for such an elimination is absolute non-use over
an extended period of time while a different word is used instead.
We went through this before, with the elimination of gumri for mushroom.
Almost 20 years later, I still sometimes come up with gumri when I am
searching for the right word.
In any event, it would take a formal change to the language definition,
and it simply isn't important enough to be worth considering, when we
cannot get through the byfy process with the regular grammar.
for referring to the respective
genitalia of either sex. We have plibu, ganti, and pinji, which are all
non-gender-specific until we make a lujvo/tanru out of them, so we ought
to be consistent.
We never attempted to have such a level of consistency in the gismu.
Nice when possible and convenient because it makes things easier to
memorize.
2. xagji
I've had this discussion at great length with people in the chat, over
and over again, until everybody pretty much wanted me to go die in a
fire. There is absolutely no way to describe "sleepy", and while my
personal usage of the word may differ from others, it doesn't change the
lack of such a concept in Lojban. tatpi means tired, as in physically
fatigued, and one must rest a moment before continuing any activities.
xagji means one is hungry, and must eat before continuing any
activities. taske means one is thirsty, and must drink before continuing
activities. None of these imply need, as there are plenty of people that
get hungry without needing to eat, there are plenty of people that get
thirsty without needing to drink, etc. This also does not imply desire
as there are plenty of people that desire to eat regardless of hunger.
Keeping this in mind, how do we express that one is sleepy? One does not
necessarily need sleep, as outlined in previous examples related to
food/drink/rest/etc., and one does not necessarily desire sleep, as also
outlined in previous examples. Therefore, we have several concepts that
have a unique value in common, which I could inadequately describe as an
intrinsic physical need, separate from the desires of the mind, and
separate from what constitutes actual need. I would like either of the
following to happen: two new gismu be created to encompass
'sleep-hunger' (sleepiness) and 'sex-hunger'(there is no non-slang word
in English), which still leaves room for things like air-hunger (again,
no English word), exercise-hunger, and possibly even something like
entertainment-hunger (boredom, I suppose)
All of those sound like perfectly reasonable lujvo based on xagji. Use
them and define them in jbovlaste.
The language was intended to be used to create metaphorical lujvo as
well as strictly compositional ones - this was made explicit for the
body-part and animal and substance gismu.
OR that the meaning of xagji
be changed to reflect this concept,
It doesn't need to be changed. You can make a lujvo that is based on a
metaphorical extension of a gismu. A tanru might be more problematical
if there are places that make no sense, but a lujvo can have any place
structure concoctable, not merely the compositional jvajvo formulations.
> None of these imply an active and concious desire,
The gismu does not necessarily imply an active and conscious desire. It
covers anything in the broad spectrum of things that might be labeled
"desire", including the tense based formulations of intermittent,
anticipatory, potential etc.
3. Cultural gismu.
Just fix it already.
There is no plausible "fix".
4. Computer words.
Face it, we're pretty much all huge nerds. We need words for "window",
"website", "internet", "software", "hardware", and various other things.
Half of which weren't useful 20 years ago, and half of which will be
obsolete 20 years from now.
Make a borrowing if you want a word and cannot come up with a
satisfactory lujvo. Look at what other languages have done for the
concept, and mimic them.
We have computer
in a broad sense.
> and monitor
actually, when added, we were thinking more in terms of a TV screen.
but not much else, and if we are to put
this language into full use as quickly as possible, I see this as a dire
necessity over most anything else.
There are NO word issues which are "dire". It is simply too easy to
make lujvo and fu'ivla.
So those are my philosophical problems with modern Lojban.
(Before you bite at problem number 2, plenty of people have already
pointed out, as the devil's advocate, that I may be making a wholly
unnecessary distinction that can be covered by need/desire, but this
brings culture into play, and this concept may be wholly unique to my
own personal culture. In my own concept of the universe, needing to eat,
wanting to eat, and being hungry are different concepts.)
So?
if you need a word and it isn't there, make one up, use it, and define
it. But in lujvo and fu'ivla space, not in gismu space.
We've only frozen 1300-odd words. There are billions more that are not
subject to baselining, but require someone to make them up, use them,
and define them.
lojbab
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