[Date Prev][Date Next][Thread Prev][Thread Next][Date Index][Thread Index]

RE: [lojban] ka + makau (was: ce'u (was: vliju'a


la and cusku di'e


> > >        le nu xokau prenu cu zvati cu spaji mi

OK, but I now realize that there is an apparent ambiguity
in your example. I originally thought it meant "I'm surprised
how-many people there are" (which I still think may be what
you intended), in which case my original comments and attempt
to rephrase still stand.


That's what I meant, yes.


However, based on your remarks (and assuming that your story
is correct), I think your sentence actually means something
like "However many people there are here, their being here surprises
me".


Not their being here. "However many people there are, there being
that many here surprises me". That is, if there are four people
here, then there being four people here is what surprises me.
It can't be "their" being here that surprises me since I made no
reference to anyone in particular. That would be:

  le nu le xokau prenu cu zvati cu spaji mi
  That the (however many) people are here surprises me.

That indeed means something like "However many people there are
here, their being here surprises me".


In that case I have no objection to "nu xokau", but I
have a more fundamental objection to your Q-kau story, which
seems to lead to an ambiguity:

     mi cucli tu'odu'u ma kau cliva
A.   "I wonder who left"
B.   "Whoever left, I'm curious about that they left."

     mi do frica tu'odu'u ce'u prami ma kau
A.   "Me and you differ in who we love"
B.   "Me and you differ in loving them, whoever they are"

     ??
A.   I changed what my name is.
B.   Whatever my name is, I changed it.

The Lojban exx standardly mean (A), but by your story I think they
ought to mean (B). I don't see any logical basis for restricting
(B)-type readings to only main bridi Q-kau.

OTOH, you could insist that the B sentences would have to be:

    ma kau goi ko'a zo'u mi cucli tu'odu'u ko'a cliva
    ma kau goi ko'a zo'u mi do frica tu'odu'u ce'u prami ko'a
    ma kau poi cmene mi ku'o goi ko'a zo'u I changed ko'a

(If you were to insist this, then what I originally said about "nu xo
kau" stands, and Q-kau can occur only within a du'u or a main
bridi.)


Yes, I insist that. New rule: {kau} has its scope restricted to
the bridi in which it appears (else all usage breaks down, as you
point out).

I still don't see a problem with the nu case, though.

mu'o mi'e xorxes




_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp